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Thread: Border Patrol Rifles Deadlining

  1. #91
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    That may work for an Agency with a few hundred or even a couple thousand cops but the Patrol is 20K+...what happens when there is a gun scare and Agents who need rifles are SOL because of availability? We're not asking our Armed Forces to buy their own guns, the Patrol does a National Security mission and the .Gov just needs to cough up the budget to properly equip them... Let's not even think about the difficulties when dealing with NFA rules on personally owned guns if you have to TDY out of state...

  2. #92
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    I was told by an BP agent that though they have almost 25K agents, the number that actually carry rifles is considerably less. As I have mentioned elsewhere that are multiple ways to address the issue. Not allowing agents to use personally purchased rifles for the reasons you cited is not valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCB View Post
    That may work for an Agency with a few hundred or even a couple thousand cops but the Patrol is 20K+...what happens when there is a gun scare and Agents who need rifles are SOL because of availability? We're not asking our Armed Forces to buy their own guns, the Patrol does a National Security mission and the .Gov just needs to cough up the budget to properly equip them... Let's not even think about the difficulties when dealing with NFA rules on personally owned guns if you have to TDY out of state...



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  3. #93
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    You should see the junk magazines that show up at Quals. I wouldn't think it would be much different with rifles...the Patrol disallowed PA's from using personally owned magazines in certain sectors to try and keep the junk out of the field because of the garbage guys were using.
    Could a personally owned rifle program work? Maybe, but is the juice worth the squeeze? New Agents at a GL-5 salary are supposed to throw down a paycheck or two for a rifle, optics, mags, sling, light, etc...from the LGS to be able to do their job? Good luck getting that past the Union. Can they buy a used gun? What if it's a "just as good as..." That the LGS put together? Same parts same quality right?
    The .gov really just needs to ship a couple truckloads of cases of the M4-A1's that are already in the system for issuance to Agents who take long arms out into the field (and yes, not everyone does). Realistically the Patrol does not need 1 rifle per Agent, it just needs to have 1 available (and assigned to) for each Agent assigned to Line Watch dutys.
    Last edited by TCB; 02-06-15 at 12:16.

  4. #94
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    Allowing and forced are not the same thing. You are arguing points I have not seen made.

  5. #95
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    Not trying to argue, just trying to bring a bit of perspective to the issue. PA's are cheap, destroy gear.and most are not gun savy..there is a saying that if you give a PA 2 bowling balls, lock him in a room and turn out the lights. When you turn the lights back on one of the bowling balls will be missing and the other one will be broken.
    Allowing, forceing, letting Agents buy their own long arms would only be a bandaid for a larger issue. BP leadership just needs to get their shit together and get the equipment out into the field that is needed to complete the mission.
    Last edited by TCB; 02-06-15 at 14:35.

  6. #96
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    Not all agents are cheap, and many are responsible with their equipment.

    I was an FI for several years, and I have seen how uneducated/interested agents can be regarding firearms and training in general. Those people are overshadowed by the agents that take their firearms and training seriously.

    If you can qualify expert with a given weapon system and show you are responsible enough to ensure it is maintained and cared for, I see no good reason we should not allow agents to purchase their own rifle, or pistol for that matter. I personally would spend the money to have a rifle I could take home with me everyday that I know hasn't been messed with by some clown in the armory while I was off-duty.

    The restriction of agent-owned firearms falls under the preventative policies that were written to protect the Border Patrol from unqualified/stupid people who make it through the hiring process. Instead of preventing stupid people from doing stupid things, we should refrain from hiring stupid people. It's good for the Patrol, good for the country and good for the environment (less paperwork saves trees).

    Plus, personally owned firearms are tax deductible, everybody wins.

    ETA:

    BP Leadership must work under the constraints of the federal bureaucracy. If you gave them all the money they asked for, each agent would get an M4, Ford Raptor, and NVG issued to them. Plus we would have a 50 foot double border fence complete with moat and genetically modified, carnivorous catfish.

    The funding issue starts higher up.
    Last edited by AZ-Renegade; 02-06-15 at 16:03.
    Good judgment comes from experience. And experience… well, that comes from poor judgment.

  7. #97
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    AZ, I'm tracking. I have nothing against being allowed to bring my personal rifle on duty (that would be awsome). But, it seems like a short sighted fix to a much larger problem. I'm just thinking it's BS to put it on the shoulders of the individual Agent to pay for and maintain the equipment they need to complete their mission rather than fixing it at the Agency level with propped budgeting and allocation.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCB View Post
    You should see the junk magazines that show up at Quals. I wouldn't think it would be much different with rifles...the Patrol disallowed PA's from using personally owned magazines in certain sectors to try and keep the junk out of the field because of the garbage guys were using.
    Could a personally owned rifle program work? Maybe, but is the juice worth the squeeze? New Agents at a GL-5 salary are supposed to throw down a paycheck or two for a rifle, optics, mags, sling, light, etc...from the LGS to be able to do their job? Good luck getting that past the Union. Can they buy a used gun? What if it's a "just as good as..." That the LGS put together? Same parts same quality right?
    The .gov really just needs to ship a couple truckloads of cases of the M4-A1's that are already in the system for issuance to Agents who take long arms out into the field (and yes, not everyone does). Realistically the Patrol does not need 1 rifle per Agent, it just needs to have 1 available (and assigned to) for each Agent assigned to Line Watch dutys.
    The patrol does not disallow personal magazines, there is an approved list of mag, weapon lights and optics.

  9. #99
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    There is an "approved" list of optics (and other gear) but our Sector replied with a big ol' negative to a request to mount a personally owned Aimpoint (approved model) on a work gun. I hear other Sectors are better about this stuff...big boy rules apply down here as to personal magazines. There was a memo put out to our Sector a while ago saying no magazines other than ones supplied by the Patrol are to be used.
    Part of the overall problem is that every Sector and even Station does things a bit different...this is why I have serious doubts about a personally owned rifle program working in the Patrol. I'd be happy with just getting the # of M-4's back up and red dots onto all of our long arms.

  10. #100
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    Someone told me that the Sectors are kind of like the LAPD in the each one is it's own little fiefdom. Maybe, I am wrong. That being the case it's pretty easy for the HMFIC of policy to say here's how it will be.

    I may not be a USBP agent, but I don't need to be one to recognize that there is a huge bloated bureaucracy that is stopping the guys in the field from getting what they need, or they would already have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCB View Post
    There is an "approved" list of optics (and other gear) but our Sector replied with a big ol' negative to a request to mount a personally owned Aimpoint (approved model) on a work gun. I hear other Sectors are better about this stuff...big boy rules apply down here as to personal magazines. There was a memo put out to our Sector a while ago saying no magazines other than ones supplied by the Patrol are to be used.
    Part of the overall problem is that every Sector and even Station does things a bit different...this is why I have serious doubts about a personally owned rifle program working in the Patrol. I'd be happy with just getting the # of M-4's back up and red dots onto all of our long arms.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

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