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Thread: New Rifle, First Range Trip but Only 25 Yards

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I'm 5'11", and the second or third single thing that most improved my overall performance with a carbine was taking the stock out to full extension.
    And that is with the Magpul .70 enhanced buttpad on the STR.
    Not trying to be argumentative, just noting that folks generally are able to more readily attain a higher level of performance with a more extended stock and an aggressive, athletic/combative stance.
    We got diverted into trying to use M4s/Mk18s like MP5s/MP5-SDs for a while, and outside of a few areas, I believe that it hindered the progression of the community.

    Sorry for the diatribe, nothing personal.
    Yup. I am using the same stock (STR) and I have the .70" Enhanced Pad on the way.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I'm 5'11", and the second or third single thing that most improved my overall performance with a carbine was taking the stock out to full extension.
    And that is with the Magpul .70 enhanced buttpad on the STR.
    Not trying to be argumentative, just noting that folks generally are able to more readily attain a higher level of performance with a more extended stock and an aggressive, athletic/combative stance.
    We got diverted into trying to use M4s/Mk18s like MP5s/MP5-SDs for a while, and outside of a few areas, I believe that it hindered the progression of the community.

    Sorry for the diatribe, nothing personal.

    Nothing personal taken at all. I was taught to shoot from a guy that was from the MP5 technique/SWAT background, so I used to be all about the collapsed stock squared up stance grabbing the magwell, but partially because of the fixed stock on the training gun I had access to I started shifting out of that. 2-3 notches out is a lot closer to the technique I've read about you and others advocating than I was at before, add in the aggressive/athletic stance I've switched to, and I can tell that my shooting has improved.

    That to say, I completely agree with what you're saying and reading what you and others have written on the subject has really helped me grow as a shooter. It's just my personal preference right now to keep the stock collapsed in a bit more than full extension.

  3. #73
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    Wait so now "nose to charging handle" is less effective? Or is it really just opinion on that matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Don't count on anything you don't sleep with attached to your body to be present when you have to fight for your life.
    I will never get to train as much as I want to. So when I do I need to make it count.
    F@ck Yolo. Bangarang!

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by St.Michael View Post
    Wait so now "nose to charging handle" is less effective? Or is it really just opinion on that matter?
    I'm just repeating what I've read, but it does make sense to me, that it's not about NTCH or not NTCH. It's about being consistent wherever you choose to put your schnoz.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I'm 5'11", and the second or third single thing that most improved my overall performance with a carbine was taking the stock out to full extension.
    And that is with the Magpul .70 enhanced buttpad on the STR.
    Not trying to be argumentative, just noting that folks generally are able to more readily attain a higher level of performance with a more extended stock and an aggressive, athletic/combative stance.
    We got diverted into trying to use M4s/Mk18s like MP5s/MP5-SDs for a while, and outside of a few areas, I believe that it hindered the progression of the community.

    Sorry for the diatribe, nothing personal.
    Thanks for posting this. I've been having a tough time figuring out the right lop, apparently it's measured the same as a bolt rifle. Thanks again

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    I will definitely seek out a class of some sort. People keep recommended Appleseed. But they suggest you bring a lot of gear and supplies I don't have.
    You don't need much for an Appleseed.
    1. You already have the rifle.
    2. 200-250 rnds of ammo.
    3. Hearing protection.
    4. Eye protection.
    5. GI sling (sling and swivels are about $20)
    6. A trainable attitude.

    A shooting mat or carpet remnants are nice to have but not required, just keeps you from tearing your elbows up.
    Lot shoot I attended, guy were using yoga mats from Walmart and they work just find.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by St.Michael View Post
    Wait so now "nose to charging handle" is less effective? Or is it really just opinion on that matter?
    NTCH is a technique best reserved for iron sights, and even then, is simply a method of consistency for those new to the game.
    Where the head falls on the stock can be altered by the degree of cant of the upper body, the closer the gun to the support shoulder, the further forward on the stock the face will naturally land, as seen in bullseye shooting where the shooter will need to remain stable for a long period of time. This position puts the support arm under the balance point of the rifle, making it easier to support for an extended period of time without incurring muscle fatigue.

    NTCH is not going to work with most optics (other than the TA31 and TA01, with their 1.5" of eye relief), especially variables.
    It also puts anyone with facial hair in an uncomfortable position.

    So, NTCH may be good for you or less than optimal, depending on what you are doing with the gun and what you have on it.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    NTCH is a technique best reserved for iron sights, and even then, is simply a method of consistency for those new to the game.
    Where the head falls on the stock can be altered by the degree of cant of the upper body, the closer the gun to the support shoulder, the further forward on the stock the face will naturally land, as seen in bullseye shooting where the shooter will need to remain stable for a long period of time. This position puts the support arm under the balance point of the rifle, making it easier to support for an extended period of time without incurring muscle fatigue.

    NTCH is not going to work with most optics (other than the TA31 and TA01, with their 1.5" of eye relief), especially variables.
    It also puts anyone with facial hair in an uncomfortable position.

    So, NTCH may be good for you or less than optimal, depending on what you are doing with the gun and what you have on it.
    Perfect. Thank you for clearing that up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Don't count on anything you don't sleep with attached to your body to be present when you have to fight for your life.
    I will never get to train as much as I want to. So when I do I need to make it count.
    F@ck Yolo. Bangarang!

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