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Thread: New Rifle, First Range Trip but Only 25 Yards

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    The squares on that target are 1/2", not 1".
    This seems to answer the issue.
    Jack Leuba
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    The squares on that target are 1/2", not 1".
    Oh, you are absolutely correct. For some reason I thought they were 1". Just pulled out a ruler and measured.

    Ok, so yeah the goal I'm working toward is to shoot a group the size of that red circle at 100 yards, which would be 2 MOA. But if I'm understanding this correctly, that's a tough thing to do. I'd settle for 4 MOA
    Last edited by FourT6and2; 11-10-14 at 11:47.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    Oh, you are absolutely correct. For some reason I thought they were 1". Just pulled out a ruler and measured.

    Ok, so yeah the goal I'm working toward is to shoot a group the size of that red circle at 100 yards, which would be 2 MOA. But if I'm understanding this correctly, that's a tough thing to do. I'd settle for 4 MOA

    4 MOA with a carbine is a good goal to start off. When you can consistently shoot 4 MOA concentric groups at 100 yards, you have accomplished something and can move on to your next goal.

    I downloaded SR-1, SR-21 and MR-31 targets off the internet, print them on 8-1/2" x 11" paper and use them at 100 yards for iron sight zeroing. You will reach the point where you have no need to post a paper target any larger than 8-1/2" x 11" at 100 yards and that would be a good goal.
    Train 2 Win

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    Oh, you are absolutely correct. For some reason I thought they were 1". Just pulled out a ruler and measured.

    Ok, so yeah the goal I'm working toward is to shoot a group the size of that red circle at 100 yards, which would be 2 MOA. But if I'm understanding this correctly, that's a tough thing to do. I'd settle for 4 MOA
    You have to also consider the mechanical accuracy of the gun and ammunition package you are shooting when setting your goals. I believe most here would agree that 1.5-2 MOA with XM193 out of a service grade barrel is acceptable accuracy. That means that 1 1/2-2 inches variation in where the bullets hit at 100yds is out of your control without spending money on the gun and target ammo! If you can shoot 4 MOA from an improvised rest with a dot sight and mill trigger you will be doing better than most of us me included! 8 MOA is a reasonable goal.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    You have to also consider the mechanical accuracy of the gun and ammunition package you are shooting when setting your goals. I believe most here would agree that 1.5-2 MOA with XM193 out of a service grade barrel is acceptable accuracy. That means that 1 1/2-2 inches variation in where the bullets hit at 100yds is out of your control without spending money on the gun and target ammo! If you can shoot 4 MOA from an improvised rest with a dot sight and mill trigger you will be doing better than most of us me included! 8 MOA is a reasonable goal.
    If 1.5-2.0 MOA is "acceptable," why is 4 MOA "better than most" and 8 MOA "reasonable"?

    Or are you saying XM193 has a variation of 1.5-2.0 MOA and that shooting 4 MOA at 100 yards with this ammo is tough. And 8 MOA is par for the course?

    In any event, I'm not sure if my barrel is "service grade" or not, or whether my trigger is "mil" or not. Barrel is Noveske CHF 16". Trigger is ALG Defense ACT.

  6. #56
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    In the opinion of the professionals who have the extensive work in, at a hundred yards should people be shooting more stationary or with lets say an aimpoint can targets be serviced and what would be a considered a decent moa for something like that
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Don't count on anything you don't sleep with attached to your body to be present when you have to fight for your life.
    I will never get to train as much as I want to. So when I do I need to make it count.
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  7. #57
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    I think 3 MOA is a reasonable expectation with M193 fired out of a good carbine. My current carbine has a chrome lined 1:9 barrel with the 5.56mm chamber. At 100 yards most 10 shot groups run 2" with the occasional flyer opening some groups to 3". Firing 40 rounds at 300 yards, most hits are inside a 7" area with a few flyers opening the group up to 9". All groups for record are fired with iron sights from the prone position. With my Aimpoint the results are close to the same at 300 yards, but with a 4MOA dot it requires more effort.

    We are not talking about a well worn military issue carbine, but a civilian version with 3,480 rounds fired through it.

    OP, a goal of 4 MOA is reasonable with your Noveske barrel and good ammunition.
    Last edited by T2C; 11-10-14 at 17:46.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    I think 3 MOA is a reasonable expectation with M193 fired out of a good carbine. My current carbine has a chrome lined 1:9 barrel with the 5.56mm chamber. At 100 yards most 10 shot groups run 2" with the occasional flyer opening some groups to 3". Firing 40 rounds at 300 yards, most hits are inside a 7" area with a few flyers opening the group up to 9". All groups for record are fired with iron sights from the prone position. With my Aimpoint the results are close to the same at 300 yards, but with a 4MOA dot it requires more effort.

    We are not talking about a well worn military issue carbine, but a civilian version with 3,480 rounds fired through it.

    OP, a goal of 4 MOA is reasonable with your Noveske barrel and good ammunition.
    Cool, thanks.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by St.Michael View Post
    In the opinion of the professionals who have the extensive work in, at a hundred yards should people be shooting more stationary or with lets say an aimpoint can targets be serviced and what would be a considered a decent moa for something like that
    When working a 100m range, I've seen our average Soldiers shooting around 5-6" groups with CompM4s and M855 in the prone. The better shooters looked like they were shooting 3.5-4" groups, but with our ammo, it's a crapshoot because of the inconsistencies of the steel cores. With my formerly owned H-1 I was grouping right at 2.5" with XM193 at 100 and could consistently make hits kneeling and prone out to 400 with that setup. I feel that's really as far as I'd want to push a red dot and would prefer to have at least 4x magnification to aid in PID.

    In my experience, 5-shot groups between 3-4" at 100 is more than good enough to take you out to 400 consistently with an Aimpoint. I prefer the 50/200 zero for red dots while many prefer the 100. Just learn your holds and you'll be good to go.

  10. #60
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    When you get comfortable with basic marksmanship, manipulation of your carbine and funds are available, I suggest taking a basic carbine course from a reputable instructor.
    Train 2 Win

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