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Thread: 20" ARs

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Would you mind clarifying this? Even though they have different NSN's I have not seen a difference between the two and as a matter of fact we converted alot of M16A2's to the M16A4 config. The package called for a flat top upper, rail system and detachable carrying handle. That was it.
    Hello,

    While the barrels would basically be the same, the difference would be in the FSB's... A2 Barrel = Std. FSB & A4 Barrel = .040 Taller "F" Height-FSB... Correct?

    If so, then didn't you have to raise (un-screw) the front sight post approximately .040" or install the .040 taller post in order to achive ZERO when you used an A2 barrel in an A4 upper w/carry handle??? Assuming of course, that it was a Colt® handle (or one made to their spec's) and not an after market with the incorrect shorter shelf where the rear sight assembly sit's.
    "LONG LIVE THE FN-BROWNING-SAIVE HIGH POWER"

    John Browning & Dieudonne Saive's Designs Will Always be Light Years Ahead of All the Others.

    Fighting Anti-Gun Tyrants & Traitors is a 24/7 Job that Must be Done!

    I'd rather beat a bad guy to death with my Browning High Power, than shoot him dead with a plastic pistol.

  2. #82
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    Actually the rifles in question were FN guns and I assume the carrying handles were the same. These were all military weapons. To the best of my knowledge there was only one type of front sight post being used. As a matter of fact the TM clearly shows one sight post being used on the M16A2/A3/A4 as well as the M4/M4A1 carbine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Reed View Post
    Hello,

    While the barrels would basically be the same, the difference would be in the FSB's... A2 Barrel = Std. FSB & A4 Barrel = .040 Taller "F" Height-FSB... Correct?

    If so, then didn't you have to raise (un-screw) the front sight post approximately .040" or install the .040 taller post in order to achive ZERO when you used an A2 barrel in an A4 upper w/carry handle??? Assuming of course, that it was a Colt® handle (or one made to their spec's) and not an after market with the incorrect shorter shelf where the rear sight assembly sit's.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Actually the rifles in question were FN guns and I assume the carrying handles were the same. These were all military weapons. To the best of my knowledge there was only one type of front sight post being used. As a matter of fact the TM clearly shows one sight post being used on the M16A2/A3/A4 as well as the M4/M4A1 carbine.
    Hello,

    Yes, I know the same front sight post is used on the M16A2/A3/A4, it's the two FSB's that are different, ie. Std. FSB for A2 Uppers & "F" Heigth FSB for A3/A4 & M4's.

    When I mentioned the taller front sight post in my original question, I was referring to the one that Bushmaster sells for the guys that are using Std. FSB's with a Colt spec'ed detachable carry handle and/or BUIS that were designed heigth-wise for use with the taller F-FSB. Sorry for not stating that to begin with, but I figured you already knew the one I meant.
    "LONG LIVE THE FN-BROWNING-SAIVE HIGH POWER"

    John Browning & Dieudonne Saive's Designs Will Always be Light Years Ahead of All the Others.

    Fighting Anti-Gun Tyrants & Traitors is a 24/7 Job that Must be Done!

    I'd rather beat a bad guy to death with my Browning High Power, than shoot him dead with a plastic pistol.

  4. #84
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    Bob,

    Don't think that I am being confrontational but in the TM the barrel assy. for the M16A2 and M16A3 are the same. The M16A4 is different. Front sight bases are not able to be ordered separately only the barrel assy. can be ordered through FEDLOG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Reed View Post
    Hello,

    Yes, I know the same front sight post is used on all the above mentioned weapons, it's the two FSB's that are different, ie. Std. FSB for A2 Uppers & "F" Heigth FSB for A3/A4 & M4's.

    When I mentioned the taller front sight post in my original question, I was referring to the one that Bushmaster sells for the guys that are using Std. FSB's with a Colt spec'ed detachable carry handle and/or BUIS that were designed heigth-wise for use with the taller F-FSB. Sorry for not stating that to begin with, but I figured you already knew the one I meant.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Bob,

    Don't think that I am being confrontational but in the TM the barrel assy. for the M16A2 and M16A3 are the same. The M16A4 is different. Front sight bases are not able to be ordered separately only the barrel assy. can be ordered through FEDLOG.
    Hello & don't worry, I don't feel that your being confrontational. And please don't think that I'm trying to be either, cause I'm not.

    I just figured that you would of had problems when trying to Zero after installing an A2 barrel assembly w/Std. FSB in an A4 upper due to the heigth differences mentioned in my other post.

    Again, don't worry, cause there's no hard feelings here.
    Bob
    "LONG LIVE THE FN-BROWNING-SAIVE HIGH POWER"

    John Browning & Dieudonne Saive's Designs Will Always be Light Years Ahead of All the Others.

    Fighting Anti-Gun Tyrants & Traitors is a 24/7 Job that Must be Done!

    I'd rather beat a bad guy to death with my Browning High Power, than shoot him dead with a plastic pistol.

  6. #86
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    I went with a 20" A3 as my first and currently only AR. I had a thing for the 20" and I still do, there's something about that long barrel that's just visually appealing and for my purposes just fine.

  7. #87
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    Bob,

    At the time I think I had a YHM BUIS on it and I had no problem getting it zeroed. I don't remember anyone else having problems either after we swapped them over and all of those guys had to zero after we were done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Reed View Post
    Hello & don't worry, I don't feel that your being confrontational. And please don't think that I'm trying to be either, cause I'm not.

    I just figured that you would of had problems when trying to Zero after installing an A2 barrel assembly w/Std. FSB in an A4 upper due to the heigth differences mentioned in my other post.

    Again, don't worry, cause there's no hard feelings here.
    Bob

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron S. View Post
    Why don't you like 'em?


    I don't like them because I live in a world of vehicles and buildings and they handle like a telephone pole compared to a 16" or less carbine.
    Last edited by Lumpy196; 07-23-08 at 19:16. Reason: spelling
    NOT in training for combat deployment.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron S. View Post
    Why don't you like 'em?
    I am not a fan of 20" guns with A2 stocks.
    I have used them for a long time.

    I do not like them due to the fact that they (A2s) were designed around gear-free target shooting. The A4s were a half-hearted attempt to correct the deficiencies noted in the A2s and were almost, but not quite completely, totally unsuccessful in the endeavor.

    My use revolves around movement, body-armor, extended periods of carrying the gun, vehicles, confined spaces, non-traditional shooting positions, bolted on crap, and cramped transport. Smaller guns outperform the fence-post in these conditions.

    The biggest issue in my experience is the lack of length of pull adjustment. I do not like the feel of 20" guns with collapsible stocks. The UBR might be OK, but I haven't tried it out yet. Not only does length of pull affect the ability to properly mount the rifle, in a combative stance it also pulls the head away from the sights, forcing the shooter to "turtle head" forward to the optic (especially noticable with ACOGs).

    I can shoot an iron-sighted A2/A4 very accurately (and prefer them for KD qualification). I can almost meet that performance with an M4. With optics they perform the same in the practical accuracy department. The bigger guns shoot softer and with increased reliability over the M4, but that reliability is moot if you can't readily bring the weapon to bear in a bad place with all your kit on. The SASR is an awesome piece of machinery as well, but is ill suited for most things I need a gun to do, regardless of it's effectiveness on target.

    If somebody wants one just because they want one, great. I have bought guns for the same reason. I fully understand that most people do not care about the same things that I do, and are more interested in just shooting at stuff or rounding out a collection. That's fine. I just find it odd that people go to such lengths to justify a choice (most of which are irrelevat due to ammo selection, optics, etc) when it is really just "because".

    Switching back to the A2/A4 from the M4 or a personal middie always makes me feel like I am doing something fundamentally wrong.

    But that's just me.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  10. #90
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    Hate the length, love the look and they're so damn soft shootin.

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