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Thread: Quick form 4 question

  1. #1
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    Quick form 4 question

    It's been a while and want to make sure I'm doing this right before I put everything in the mail. So I am going to submit 2 copies of a duplexed/double sided form 4, my complete notarized trust, and $200 check made payable to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to the address

    National Firearms Act Branch

    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms

    and Explosives, P.O. Box 530298

    Atlanta, GA 30353-0298


    Assuming I got all that right, can my notarized page in the trust be a photo copy? I am to sign both copies of the form 4 in ink? and the schedule of property should only list assets I have already received stamps for, meaning I do not put the serial for this form 4 on the property list?


    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Address is on the Form 4, and yes they do go to GA.

    Back page of the F4 is completely blank for a trust application, unless it's for an SBR/SBS/MG/DD. For those, you have to sign box 15...for cans and AOWs, no signature required. I've never even seen one of my F4s (all suppressors) until the stamp is attached.

    What's on the Schedule doesn't matter, as long as the trust is valid...which in most instances means it needs to have some property. In my case, I've sent the same Schedule A 20+ times now, and it only shows the initial $200 I funded the trust with. If you can't scan the notarized page, a pic should be fine.

    Two double-side F4s, the trust, the check...that's it.
    Last edited by BigWaylon; 12-10-14 at 11:14.

  3. #3
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    My schedule does not list the NFA items I own either as Big Waylon states. I have not sent in 20 copies like him but never had an issue the times I have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
    My schedule does not list the NFA items I own either as Big Waylon states. I have not sent in 20 copies like him but never had an issue the times I have.
    Sorry to derail, but there's no need to list any NFA items in the schedule?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter22 View Post
    Sorry to derail, but there's no need to list any NFA items in the schedule?
    I'll repost an answer I gave to a similar question on ARFCOM this week. I think it answers your question, if not let me knowing exactly what still isn't clear:

    Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
    Originally Posted By Zhukov:
    Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
    Nothing says you have to send an updated copy to the ATF. I've filed 20+ forms, and every single one of them got the same Schedule A...one that simply lists $200 as the initial amount I used to fund the trust. The updated copy stays at home.
    How do you keep track of what belongs to the trust then? Is there a specific record keeping requirement, or does the engraved firearm part serve to identify it belongs to the trust?
    The trust owns the item because you put the trust name as the applicant on the Form 1 or Form 4. In most cases, especially with "gun trusts", the Schedule is simply an inventory sheet so that any trustee would know what items to look for when the time comes. Adding the items to the list doesn't transfer ownership in any way.

    As I mentioned, I add my items once the forms are back in my hand. I keep that updated copy at home. The ATF just needs to know the trust is valid, and in most circumstances that requires the trust to own property and not be empty. That's why a lot of people add a $1 bill and list the serial number. There's no requirement to send the updated copy of the Schedule when you send new forms.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter22 View Post
    Sorry to derail, but there's no need to list any NFA items in the schedule?
    That's exactly what I am agreeing with from the poster before me. What did I type that tells you otherwise?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
    That's exactly what I am agreeing with from the poster before me. What did I type that tells you otherwise?
    Just looking for confirmation and clarification.

  8. #8
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    I've never updated my list of NFA items on submitted trust copys.

    I've had a bunch of stamps come back (form 1s, form 4s, and e-forms). I've never had a problem.
    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson.

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    Thanks for the help, I think I'm almost there.. The form 4's are filled out and I listed the name of the trust, signed as trustee and said all legal purposes in field 15. I am going to submit a citizenship form 5330.20 as suggested by my lawyer, but cannot get a clear answer on how to fill it out. He is suggesting leaving all the fields blank except for "or Name of Corporation, Partnership, or Association, (If applicable.)". Here is a link to the form, I am thinking I should leave field 1 empty and put the trust name in the name of corporation box and my name in field 2?

    https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/down...-f-5330-20.pdf

  10. #10
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    Since you're filing as a trust, you don't file a 5330.20. If you're buying a suppressor or AOW, you leave the entire page two blank. If you're buying an SBR/SBS/MG/DD, the only thing you fill out on page two is box 15, and "all legal reasons" works fine (unless your particular state has wording requirements).

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