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Thread: Vector 45 SBR vs. Other Pistol Caliber SBRs

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Which is why I'm coming to realize that a U.S. civilian cannot buy a well-proven and short pistol caliber SBR. All of the ones made by reputable companies with good adoption by mil / LEOs are like H&K, where you can't even buy the semi-auto versions in the U.S since the late 1980s.
    B&T TP9.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Add the B&T TP9 to the list of "problem free" SBRs.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    B&T TP9.
    Steyr do you have one of these?

    I'm interested in the new Scorpion Evo but this might be a good alternative.
    Last edited by SteveL; 12-16-14 at 09:13.
    Steve

  3. #13
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    I just submitted a Form1 last week on a POF MP5. I was thinking about the Scorpion, but CZ has been all over the board as far as making it 922r compliant. The MP5 was the easy button, plus the CZ is at a low enough price point that it's easy to do if it pans out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Robison View Post
    I just submitted a Form1 last week on a POF MP5. I was thinking about the Scorpion, but CZ has been all over the board as far as making it 922r compliant. The MP5 was the easy button, plus the CZ is at a low enough price point that it's easy to do if it pans out.
    Don - do you trust Pakistan Ordinance Factories as a manufacturer of reliable weaponry? I don't know one way or the other, and don't know if they have a track record to speak of. Also, this appears to be an ~8" barrel in 9mm, which rules out using JHP ammo, as a JHP round would have too much velocity out of that barrel and would underpenetrate. So you'd be using 9mm ball ammo, which is a significant step down in terms of the wound created per shot, as well as greater tendency to overpenetrate even with good torso hits.

    Ideally a pistol caliber SBR has a barrel close to pistol length (under 6"), which allows you to use JHPs.
    Last edited by Naphtali; 12-16-14 at 11:04.

  5. #15
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    Naphtali, if you want a shorter barrel, then look at the Reverse Stretch. POF released one a few months ago, currently sold out.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Don - do you trust Pakistan Ordinance Factories as a manufacturer of reliable weaponry? I don't know one way or the other, and don't know if they have a track record to speak of. Also, this appears to be an ~8" barrel in 9mm, which rules out using JHP ammo, as a JHP round would have too much velocity out of that barrel and would underpenetrate. So you'd be using 9mm ball ammo, which is a significant step down in terms of the wound created per shot, as well as greater tendency to overpenetrate even with good torso hits.

    Ideally a pistol caliber SBR has a barrel close to pistol length (under 6"), which allows you to use JHPs.
    I trust them only because I saw a lot of them in use with the Pak Army over a 5 year period of being there. Seems like many departments run 147gr JHP like RA9T in their MP5s. My preferred ammo is RA9T so I'll use it in mine because I always have it on hand. I'm not busting into crack houses with this thing and I don't have any overpentration concerns where I live so more times than not it will be loaded with 124gr ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Robison View Post
    I trust them only because I saw a lot of them in use with the Pak Army over a 5 year period of being there. Seems like many departments run 147gr JHP like RA9T in their MP5s. My preferred ammo is RA9T so I'll use it in mine because I always have it on hand. I'm not busting into crack houses with this thing and I don't have any overpentration concerns where I live so more times than not it will be loaded with 124gr ball.
    Correction on my statement about JHPs and mp5s.

    The Federal P9HST2 (9mm 147gr, standard velocity, NOT +P) works well from a standard length mp5.

    Google: PortlandWoundBallisticReport1.pdf

    It has the raw numbers from an ATK workshop with bare gelatin / various barriers. A little hard to find (I have the PDF saved, but the ATK links are broken now for some reason).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    Steyr do you have one of these?

    I'm interested in the new Scorpion Evo but this might be a good alternative.
    Yes, I'll get pics up later tonight if I can.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barfly76 View Post
    ZQ is importer. MKE is the manufacturer. They are building them using HK tooling. It is the closest you are going to get to a HK MP5 style firearm.
    And more importantly, the MKE is superior to any US receiver clone. I don't care who builds it, and there are some talented builders out there, the US made receiver is the problem and it isn't even close to true HK or HK contracts like MKE.

    Regarding JHPs, the MKEs feed them just fine. So long as you are using curved mags and not old HK straight mags, the MKE will be 100%.

    While we are at it, the Colt 9mm is another excellent SBR candidate.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    And more importantly, the MKE is superior to any US receiver clone. I don't care who builds it, and there are some talented builders out there, the US made receiver is the problem and it isn't even close to true HK or HK contracts like MKE.

    Regarding JHPs, the MKEs feed them just fine. So long as you are using curved mags and not old HK straight mags, the MKE will be 100%.

    While we are at it, the Colt 9mm is another excellent SBR candidate.
    The only semi-auto model on Colt's site is a 16" barrel, which I'm assuming you could replace with the 10.5" barrel found on the burst or auto version. But then best case scenario you're putting 9mm rds through a barrel 2.5" longer than an mp5... I would be really surprised if JHPs would adequately penetrate going that fast. It's possible, but I wouldn't bet my life on it without seeing a credible agency testing that barrel length using a quality JHP round with the FBI protocols. I don't know that this testing has been done... a quick search now yielded nothing. Or you'd have to resign yourself to ball ammo, which is just such a big hit to weapon effectiveness, especially in 9mm.

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