Barrier busting in the hood.

[PA PATRIOT]

I had the opportunity to shoot a whole bunch of back stops that would be considered "Urban Cover" which is basically anything one could find to take cover behind in a major urban city. Now I always carried a extra 30rd magazine loaded with M-855 for such a instance were a hostile maybe hiding behind a cinder block wall, postal mail box, metal street light pole or a vehicle (Not the Engine) that I might need to punch through to make a hit. During the shoot I sadly found that the M-855 was sorely lacking in defeating such cover and that started me thinking for those who live in a built up major urban city just might need a caliber which penetrates better.

Now one would think why not just jump to the 7.62x51mm (.308) and call it a day? Well that kind of makes sense since all the controls are the same with the only real negatives being the additional cost to train, weight and recoil. So back to the range I returned to see how the 7.62x51 fared against the same barriers using Lake City M80 standard military ball. The M80 was impressive punching through barriers that the 5.56 only dented, But I found that the blast and recoil was a bit much on the shoulders which both have seen several repairs over the years.

So what other options are available? The 7.62x39 is available but until the magazine and bolt life issues are resolved it just cant be my go to rifle. I was looking at the 6.8, 300BLK and others but factory ammo costs a small fortune even for plain old FMJ.

I don't think there is much more out there but maybe I'M missing something? I did hear someone was making a truly beefed up 7.62x39 AR bolt with a matching barrel but I have not heard anything about that project in a year. I guess I could down load the 7.62x51 to 7.62x39 levels for reduce recoil but then I would have to play with the gun to make if function correctly. And if at all possible I hope not to carry a AK if I can help it.

Any Suggestions?

[Warp]

Stay with 5.56 and realize that having to shoot somebody through cover is very unlikely for a private citizen.

There are .223/5.56 rounds marketed for light barriers. Have you looked into any of them? The TBBC, RA556B, Speer Gold Dot, this Hornady stuff

http://www.sgammo.com/product/hornad...jsp-ammo-83285

Have you looked into them? I'll bet people have tested them/you could test some of them.

I'd be interested in those results myself, I suppose.

[Clint]

M855 sucks for just about everything.

Barrier punching with 5.56 requires careful selection of loads.

5.56 just doesn't have extra energy or cross section to do much damage in FMJ form.

6.8SPC, 300BLK and 7.62x39 seem to do a much better job smashing things.

Check out the cmmg Mk47 for the beefed up x39 option.

[Voodoo_Man]

I have done barrier penetration on several occasions. Depending on the barrier, 556 will work. Not 62gr green tips, they work for metal and armor, brick and stone, not so much.


M193 and the like do well in volume. Ive leved a cinderblock wall in around a mag and a half.

Have you tried with TAP or 64gr speer gold dot? They are pretty good for that.

[.46caliber]

I did hear someone was making a truly beefed up 7.62x39 AR bolt with a matching barrel but I have not heard anything about that project in a year.

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/76afc41.htm



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[PA PATRIOT]

Stay with 5.56 and realize that having to shoot somebody through cover is very unlikely for a private citizen.

There are .223/5.56 rounds marketed for light barriers. Have you looked into any of them? The TBBC, RA556B, Speer Gold Dot, this Hornady stuff

http://www.sgammo.com/product/hornad...jsp-ammo-83285

Have you looked into them? I'll bet people have tested them/you could test some of them.

I'd be interested in those results myself, I suppose.

Just looking out my front window I see several of the mention barrier/cover items less then 50yds down range. Any SHTF action against my location the hostiles would use said cover as I know I would if on foot walking out of the city. So I wish to add this factor into my planning now before finding out later the hard way. Most specially 5.56 rounds come with a high cost which limit their use in training and if I can increase caliber a bit and gain the penetration using simple FMJ's its a more cost effective and practical choice training wise.

[PA PATRIOT]

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/76afc41.htm



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I have seen this option but the one I was speaking of is a modified 7.62x39 AR barrel with a beefed up 7.62x39 AR bolt which is still a drop in kit.

[murphman]

The cheapest route would to select a 556 load designed for this type of thing and the guys have suggested a few great options. As for 6.8, if you have the funds to start a build or plan to just buy the upper to slap on your current lowers when need be now is the time to do so. I have seen plenty of sales on 6.8 ammo over the past month ranging from 11$-13$ a box, this is 308 territory and is significantly less then the minimum 21$ a box you would find 6.8 for just 2 years ago.

[tylerw02]

Learn to reload your own ammunition if you want 6.8 or .300. Or stay with 5.56 and learn anyway. There's really good bullet for penetration called the 70 gr TSX. Anmo isn't expensive if you buy it preloaded, but you can load it yourself cheaper. You can load 1000 of them to stash away cheaper than building a new upper and buying another set of magazines. Side benefit is your training ammo will also be cheaper.


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[glocktogo]

The cheapest route would to select a 556 load designed for this type of thing and the guys have suggested a few great options. As for 6.8, if you have the funds to start a build or plan to just buy the upper to slap on your current lowers when need be now is the time to do so. I have seen plenty of sales on 6.8 ammo over the past month ranging from 11$-13$ a box, this is 308 territory and is significantly less then the minimum 21$ a box you would find 6.8 for just 2 years ago.

This. I just got a bunch of SSA 115gr OTM for about .50 cents a round on sale. I was originally going to build an 18" 6.8 with a larger optic, but went with 16" after attending DoJ SLATT conference that featured a detailed AAR on the West Memphis incident. The Game Warden saved the day with his 5.56 AR, but based on the barriers in play I decided that my 6.8 build should be patrol compatible as well.