Barrier busting in the hood.

[PA PATRIOT]

I had the opportunity to shoot a whole bunch of back stops that would be considered "Urban Cover" which is basically anything one could find to take cover behind in a major urban city. Now I always carried a extra 30rd magazine loaded with M-855 for such a instance were a hostile maybe hiding behind a cinder block wall, postal mail box, metal street light pole or a vehicle (Not the Engine) that I might need to punch through to make a hit. During the shoot I sadly found that the M-855 was sorely lacking in defeating such cover and that started me thinking for those who live in a built up major urban city just might need a caliber which penetrates better.

Now one would think why not just jump to the 7.62x51mm (.308) and call it a day? Well that kind of makes sense since all the controls are the same with the only real negatives being the additional cost to train, weight and recoil. So back to the range I returned to see how the 7.62x51 fared against the same barriers using Lake City M80 standard military ball. The M80 was impressive punching through barriers that the 5.56 only dented, But I found that the blast and recoil was a bit much on the shoulders which both have seen several repairs over the years.

So what other options are available? The 7.62x39 is available but until the magazine and bolt life issues are resolved it just cant be my go to rifle. I was looking at the 6.8, 300BLK and others but factory ammo costs a small fortune even for plain old FMJ.

I don't think there is much more out there but maybe I'M missing something? I did hear someone was making a truly beefed up 7.62x39 AR bolt with a matching barrel but I have not heard anything about that project in a year. I guess I could down load the 7.62x51 to 7.62x39 levels for reduce recoil but then I would have to play with the gun to make if function correctly. And if at all possible I hope not to carry a AK if I can help it.

Any Suggestions?

[Warp]

Stay with 5.56 and realize that having to shoot somebody through cover is very unlikely for a private citizen.

There are .223/5.56 rounds marketed for light barriers. Have you looked into any of them? The TBBC, RA556B, Speer Gold Dot, this Hornady stuff

http://www.sgammo.com/product/hornad...jsp-ammo-83285

Have you looked into them? I'll bet people have tested them/you could test some of them.

I'd be interested in those results myself, I suppose.

[Clint]

M855 sucks for just about everything.

Barrier punching with 5.56 requires careful selection of loads.

5.56 just doesn't have extra energy or cross section to do much damage in FMJ form.

6.8SPC, 300BLK and 7.62x39 seem to do a much better job smashing things.

Check out the cmmg Mk47 for the beefed up x39 option.

[Voodoo_Man]

I have done barrier penetration on several occasions. Depending on the barrier, 556 will work. Not 62gr green tips, they work for metal and armor, brick and stone, not so much.


M193 and the like do well in volume. Ive leved a cinderblock wall in around a mag and a half.

Have you tried with TAP or 64gr speer gold dot? They are pretty good for that.

[markm]

M855 sucks for just about everything.

THIS! I often read posts on the forums where guys have a false sense of its capabilities. I shot some through auto glass once, and it was just as bad as anything else I tested.

We didn't have bonded options back then.

[nova3930]

As someone who has and likes his 6.8mm I would only recommend it for the intended use if and only if you can't handle the .308. For SD if you're going to spend an equivalent amount to .308 in practice and training, you may as well get the added performance of .308. 6.8 is just not cheap for the performance.

I use my 6.8mm for hunting (specifically hogs) which I feel like it excels at, but I don't spend a whole of time practicing with it. I check my scope dial zero once a year and then whatever I use killing hogs.

IF you do go 6.8, Federal has made some nice white box gold dot rounds. 90gr pushing 2800fps out of a 16" barrel. Drop a 250lb hog like a bad habit. Not sure if production will continue or if they're a limited run though.

http://www.luckygunner.com/6-8-90-gr...eral-20-rounds

I agree with everyone else above though, I think your best bet will be 556 with some of the better loadings....

[glocktogo]

As someone who has and likes his 6.8mm I would only recommend it for the intended use if and only if you can't handle the .308. For SD if you're going to spend an equivalent amount to .308 in practice and training, you may as well get the added performance of .308. 6.8 is just not cheap for the performance.

I use my 6.8mm for hunting (specifically hogs) which I feel like it excels at, but I don't spend a whole of time practicing with it. I check my scope dial zero once a year and then whatever I use killing hogs.

IF you do go 6.8, Federal has made some nice white box gold dot rounds. 90gr pushing 2800fps out of a 16" barrel. Drop a 250lb hog like a bad habit. Not sure if production will continue or if they're a limited run though.

http://www.luckygunner.com/6-8-90-gr...eral-20-rounds

I agree with everyone else above though, I think your best bet will be 556 with some of the better loadings....

Except most .308 platforms are unwieldy in tight quarters when compared to 5.56/6.8/,300 BLK platforms. Perhaps a short barreled FAL PARA, but that comes with it's own set of issues. A 6.8 or .300 BLK with bonded core bullets should be a nice in-between option. They should easily outpace the terminal performance of even the best 5.56 loads through intermediate barriers.

[PA PATRIOT]

Stay with 5.56 and realize that having to shoot somebody through cover is very unlikely for a private citizen.

There are .223/5.56 rounds marketed for light barriers. Have you looked into any of them? The TBBC, RA556B, Speer Gold Dot, this Hornady stuff

http://www.sgammo.com/product/hornad...jsp-ammo-83285

Have you looked into them? I'll bet people have tested them/you could test some of them.

I'd be interested in those results myself, I suppose.

Just looking out my front window I see several of the mention barrier/cover items less then 50yds down range. Any SHTF action against my location the hostiles would use said cover as I know I would if on foot walking out of the city. So I wish to add this factor into my planning now before finding out later the hard way. Most specially 5.56 rounds come with a high cost which limit their use in training and if I can increase caliber a bit and gain the penetration using simple FMJ's its a more cost effective and practical choice training wise.

[Keith E.]

Most specially 5.56 rounds come with a high cost which limit their use in training and if I can increase caliber a bit and gain the penetration using simple FMJ's its a more cost effective and practical choice training wise.

Patriot,

You speak of cost which is a valid concern. My question (followed by another question) is how much would you invest in changing calibers, upper(s), possibly mags and the obtaining the new ammo? How would this cost compare to finding a somewhat suitable "specialty ammo" in your current caliber that would have a POI similar to your current caliber of choice with a FMJ loading for practice?

Keith

[Warp]

Patriot,

You speak of cost which is a valid concern. My question (followed by another question) is how much would you invest in changing calibers, upper(s), possibly mags and the obtaining the new ammo? How would this cost compare to finding a somewhat suitable "specialty ammo" in your current caliber that would have a POI similar to your current caliber of choice with a FMJ loading for practice?

Keith

Not to mention the 'logistics' of then stocking a sufficient quantity of the new cartridge, possibly new magazines, possibly new spare parts, etc. I mean, are you going to do a wholesale switch to a different cartridge? Because it's not like, if you were to really need/want the increased barrier penetration of it, you could swap rifles or uppers in mid stream. But you could have the better (or less bad) 5.56 barrier ammo loaded, or in a spare mag (or mags)