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Thread: How Effective is the MK12?

  1. #71
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    It's a best case scenario for 223, so you're not going to do much better without stepping up to 6mm. It's almost a bull barrel, and the silencer they chose is unclipped for maximum precision and minimum POI shift. It also has two alignment points to ensure bore concentricity. I'm not sure what thread class the government Mk12 barrels had, but I would be surprised if they weren't a bit tighter since they were a custom job. All in all, I speculate that an alignment rod would probably be dead center.

    There are two areas where they should have done better, where a civilian making his own version could do better. The Mod 0 had the benefit of the somewhat monolithic handguard. I'm not sure why they went away from that. Maybe it proved to be ineffective. But you could definitely help yourself using a real monolithic upper of some kind. Normally not worth the weight, but since it's a monster already a few more ounces won't make any difference.

    The other area where you could improve is the barrel length. The Army wanted 20, the Navy wanted 16, so they compromised at 18, which was a mistake. Kind of the worst of both worlds and the best of neither. The Mk12 program was started to standardize SPRs across SOCOM, and basically combine the Navy's RECCE program with the Army's NM style M16s they were using. A civilian making his own version would be better served by either a 20 inch rifle or a mid length 16 inch. Or even a carbine length SBR for that matter. Reducing length will sacrifice a little range, but should actually increase precision within its effective range. Mk262 isn't exactly flat shooting from any barrel length, so I doubt you would see a major loss of ballistic performance either way, within reason.

    There have also been improvements in optics since the Mk12. An S&B 1-8 short dot scope would be absolutely stunning on that platform. I've also heard virtues of using an ACOG on them, and that might be a very attractive option if you did an SBR variant.

    As for the silencer, I don't believe OPS is still around, but the Surefire silencers are pretty much modernized versions of them. You could probably just go with any of the full sized Surefire cans and be just as well off.
    Last edited by okie; 07-17-22 at 12:32.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    It's a best case scenario for 223, so you're not going to do much better without stepping up to 6mm. It's almost a bull barrel, and the silencer they chose is unclipped for maximum precision and minimum POI shift. It also has two alignment points to ensure bore concentricity. I'm not sure what thread class the government Mk12 barrels had, but I would be surprised if they weren't a bit tighter since they were a custom job. All in all, I speculate that an alignment rod would probably be dead center.

    There are two areas where they should have done better, where a civilian making his own version could do better. The Mod 0 had the benefit of the somewhat monolithic handguard. I'm not sure why they went away from that. Maybe it proved to be ineffective. But you could definitely help yourself using a real monolithic upper of some kind. Normally not worth the weight, but since it's a monster already a few more ounces won't make any difference.

    The other area where you could improve is the barrel length. The Army wanted 20, the Navy wanted 16, so they compromised at 18, which was a mistake. Kind of the worst of both worlds and the best of neither. The Mk12 program was started to standardize SPRs across SOCOM, and basically combine the Navy's RECCE program with the Army's NM style M16s they were using. A civilian making his own version would be better served by either a 20 inch rifle or a mid length 16 inch. Or even a carbine length SBR for that matter. Reducing length will sacrifice a little range, but should actually increase precision within its effective range. Mk262 isn't exactly flat shooting from any barrel length, so I doubt you would see a major loss of ballistic performance either way, within reason.

    There have also been improvements in optics since the Mk12. An S&B 1-8 short dot scope would be absolutely stunning on that platform. I've also heard virtues of using an ACOG on them, and that might be a very attractive option if you did an SBR variant.

    As for the silencer, I don't believe OPS is still around, but the Surefire silencers are pretty much modernized versions of them. You could probably just go with any of the full sized Surefire cans and be just as well off.
    Ron Allen, the man behind the manufacturing of the ops cans is still making them under his own brand.

    Also Otter Creek Labs is making a lighter and improved version called the OCM5.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  3. #73
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    I have an Otter Creek can on mine and it is awesome. Going to do a review on the custom built forum soon

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpb1776 View Post
    I have an Otter Creek can on mine and it is awesome. Going to do a review on the custom built forum soon
    Very nice. Interested to see what the POI shift is.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    600 yd target ain't hearing that one anyway.

    Semi-relevant question (as it applies to the Mk12/DMR role): Is there an arbitrary distance, or rule of thumb range at which the can comes off in order to get maximal terminal ballistic effect?
    How would a silencer influence that? The only thing I could think of is the can helping due to free-bore boost.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    600 yd target ain't hearing that one anyway.

    Semi-relevant question (as it applies to the Mk12/DMR role): Is there an arbitrary distance, or rule of thumb range at which the can comes off in order to get maximal terminal ballistic effect?
    More of a METT-T decision vice ballistics.

    Do you NEED a suppressor for your/this particular mission? It makes the rifle longer and a little unwieldy. It looks cool, but will it hamper handling for shoot and scoot to new positions?

    Do you need to move fast, and do you needto conceal your shot points-of-origin?

    It's a balance -- never compromise hits for Gucci points.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    An S&B 1-8 short dot scope would be absolutely stunning on that platform.
    Indeed it is!

    The newer S&B 1-8's are legit awesome SPR optics with the MDR-T6 reticle. Just enough horsepower to do everything a 5.56 rifle like this should be asked to handle. Damn shame the price has climbed nearly 60% on this already ridiculously expensive optic.

  8. #78
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    I haven't noticed that much of a difference but I have yet to do any serious testing yet. I'm using a Leupold MK5 3-18 on the rifle I have maybe changed a click or two out to 600 yards is the farthest I have gone so far but with it on or off you are still pretty close from what I gathered

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    600 yd target ain't hearing that one anyway.

    Semi-relevant question (as it applies to the Mk12/DMR role): Is there an arbitrary distance, or rule of thumb range at which the can comes off in order to get maximal terminal ballistic effect?
    If I understand your question, it sounds like you're asking if there is a range at which you can remove the can and improve performance.

    The answer is no, not really. The use, or not, of the suppressor won't effect the rounds within any range that 5.56 is effective. I have substantial time on the Mk12 platform (probably about 5k rounds between training and deployment), and the only variable to consider from removing the suppressor is POI shift that can become noticeable at greater ranges. Anecdotally, I have hit steel at about 900 yards IIRC with one of these, and had good effects on targets in theater at about 700. I have heard similar or better from others.

    On a related point, I feel like the use and purpose of the DMR gets misunderstood frequently. A sniper weapons system is well set up to fire singular precision fire on targets while allowing the shooter to remain concealed. A DMR is not merely a semi-automatic version of this. While an excellent marksman can certainly use it that way, the intended role of weapons like the Mk12 is to be used within a squad to enhance the range and effectiveness of a squad's fires. The way a rifle squad engages targets at very long ranges is by volume. A group of infantry equipped with M4's who makes a positive ID on a valid target at 800 meters away doesn't call up their DMR and hope he makes a single well placed shot. They all shoot and then attempt to correct off of feedback. The terminal ballistics of 5.56 ammunition are sufficient to kill humans at those ranges, with enough hits on target you can be certain. The DMR role is make this easier with better ammunition and optics.

    Sorry for the sidebar explainer, but I feel like a better understanding of the platform could help people understand its limitations and its strengths.

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