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Thread: How Effective is the MK12?

  1. #41
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    Thanks, it's a fun rig to shoot & my go-to for coon hunting & opossum killing when they get after my chickens.

    Regarding the 15th/12th, unless the build intent is a 100% clone correct Mod H.... I would much rather run the 15th vs the 12th. It doesn't suppress quite as well but what it saves in OAL & front-end weight more than makes up for the additional DB's. The AEM2 is around 80% as effective as the 15th...again, well worth the slightly louder sound signature for the shorter can convenience.

  2. #42
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    I shot a suppressed supersonic AR10 last year with a lot of M118 that was almost like shooting subsonic. It had a......type of reflex can, with no baffles in it.

    I took video of it at the two areas of offense, the ejection port and muzzle, and this thing was freaking quiet. This is coming from someone who has shot a lot of different suppressors CONUS and OCONUS, to include the top-end Northern European cans from B&T, Ase Utra, BR Tuote, the new lightweight cans for the AI .338's, as well as a lot of what is present in the US market.

    Needless to say, the gears have been turning on a smaller OD can specifically for a new SPR in a smaller caliber within the AR15 profile, using lightweight components so we don't lose the balance of a lightweight gun.

  3. #43
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    This is one of the best videos that demonstrates the aspects of the DM role I highlighted earlier, while also directly answering the question posed in the OP:

    * Situational Awareness from a trained Shooter with quality optics
    * His ability and proactive role in directing supporting assets with decisive communication
    * Precision fires on enemy targets, in this case, a head shot and the ability to spot his own hit with a light-recoiling, suppressed 5.56 rifle

    Mk12 SPR in Action


  4. #44
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    Its a good write up, but are there still any MK12s out in the wild? I know the MK17 was supposed to replace them, so how does that change your opinions on the DM role? And what option should be available for the line guys who can't get the SCARs?

    Rick

  5. #45
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    The biggest disadvantages to switching to a totally different gun and caliber for the DM's in the Infantry Squad are:

    * logistics/armorer support (been there, done that with the M14)
    * no more commonality of ammo with the riflemen
    * reduced combat load capability
    * To a lesser degree, the different manual of arms can be an issue, especially in a unit with a lot of first-termers who simply might end up with a gun in their hands they never trained with when it counts the most.

    What I like about the Mk.17 is:

    * the combination of 7.62 NATO in such a lightweight, well-balanced package, if you keep the barrel short and don't go nuts on the fore end/accessories

    On reduced basic load capability and your unit's ability to sustain the fight in a really bad scenario, it really needs to be taken into consideration. Take 3rd Plt, B Co, 2-87th Inf, 10th Mtn Div. "Outlaw" Platoon's experiences in Barmal Disrict in OEF 2006-2007, where they were looking at being overrun on several different occasions, and the PSG had distributed all 10 of his personal mags to his Squads right before they were looking at things going worst-case for them at one point in the deployment. Commonality of magazines and ammo became pretty critical to them. If one man out of every 4-man Fire team had a different caliber and much less ammunition, I think it could have meant many of them being killed.

    If you have not seen the 3-Part Brownell's/NRA sponsored series on that, I can't recommend it highly enough. I was in tears multiple times watching them, the first ones shed out of pride for those guys after what they did when faced with a very well-coordinated Taliban ambush from a steep incline of 2000ft after one of their vehicles was destroyed by an IED on their very first patrol, where the ANA abandoned their trucks in front of them...leaving them pinned down in the kill zone after a narrow and winding pass uphill.

    The PL dismounted his truck, and charged up the hill, asking himself if he had just made the stupidest decision in his life. When he looked over his shoulder, his hooahs were behind him with SAWs, M4's, and an 11C with a 60mm mortar plus an assault pack full of rounds. The 11C started dropping accurate 60mm on the Taliban, while the other boys were laying down serious hate, and what was left of the Taliban decided to un-ass their superior positions on the high ground, and get out of dodge. Word got out among the Taliban that there were some new kids in town, and these guys painted their Outlaw symbol on all their vehicles to let the Taliban know that they were going to have to earn that pay on the 2-way range. The Taliban started recognizing their symbol painted on the vehicles, and usually opted to let them pass through their kill zones

    They also made life-saving use of DM's when going toe-to-toe with hordes of Taliban, and 1Lt. Parnell pointed out what a force-multiplying asset it was to have them.

    So there is a strong argument to have a common rifle/carbine when looking at conventional units, even though I would also advocate for conventional Infantry Units to have more than one choice for their weapon assortment when tailoring the force for the AOR and Mission.

    This is why I lean to a 16" lightweight DM AR carbine with an enhanced BC projectile that will still work with the rest of the Squad.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by skp View Post
    Yeah but those were prototypes.
    The only Mk12 I've handled in the wild was a Mod 1 owned by 2/75. It was an auto lower with an SSA trigger.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRRPF52 View Post
    This is one of the best videos that demonstrates the aspects of the DM role I highlighted earlier, while also directly answering the question posed in the OP:

    * Situational Awareness from a trained Shooter with quality optics
    * His ability and proactive role in directing supporting assets with decisive communication
    * Precision fires on enemy targets, in this case, a head shot and the ability to spot his own hit with a light-recoiling, suppressed 5.56 rifle

    Mk12 SPR in Action

    Good vid, thanks for sharing!
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN TRAINING, THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRRPF52 View Post
    If you have not seen the 3-Part Brownell's/NRA sponsored series on that, I can't recommend it highly enough.
    Does anybody have a link to that series?

    Yes, I know- holy necro post, but I cannot find it. All I am seeing is the book. A little help?
    Last edited by drh2687; 04-03-22 at 13:06.

  9. #49
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    After returning from OIF2 in 2005 and retiring. I started my build in 2009 and finished it 2012 a MK 12 Mod 0. This is the most accurate AR I have ever shot. I worked up a load using TAC and currently 8208 with the 77MK. A great rifle the MK 12.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRRPF52 View Post
    .

    On reduced basic load capability and your unit's ability to sustain the fight in a really bad scenario, it really needs to be taken into consideration. Take 3rd Plt, B Co, 2-87th Inf, 10th Mtn Div. "Outlaw" Platoon's experiences in Barmal Disrict in OEF 2006-2007, where they were looking at being overrun on several different occasions, and the PSG had distributed all 10 of his personal mags to his Squads right before they were looking at things going worst-case for them at one point in the deployment. Commonality of magazines and ammo became pretty critical to them. If one man out of every 4-man Fire team had a different caliber and much less ammunition, I think it could have meant many of them being killed. .
    @LRRPF52, where ya been lately????

    Really miss the insight and real world experience you would post. You too @BooneGA!

    BTW, I read the book about outlaw platoon and it is just as you said, an amazing survival story.

    Outlaw platoon's experience and some similar scenarios in the Korangal with the herd clued me into some core issues in A'stan. Platoons were often way too spread out without any capability of support from adjacent platoons, much less company and battalion resources.

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