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Thread: Independence ammo must be loaded pretty damn hot?

  1. #1
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    Independence ammo must be loaded pretty damn hot?

    I subscribe to a lot of ammo testing channels on youtube, I always like to see what performance people are getting from different ammo makers. When I checked today a new video from Buffman was up, I like his videos because he always posts the results in the description. Here is the video-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dw73p2To8

    Here is what he got from a 16" barreled Stag with Independence 5.56 xm193i in case you don't want to watch-

    #1: 3,220
    #2: 3,276
    #3: 3,220
    #4: 3,228
    #5: 3,267
    Avg: 3,242

    Here is what he was getting from a 10" barreled Yugo M85 PAP

    #1: 2,783
    #2: 2,754
    #3: 2,801
    #4: 2,772
    #5: 2,789
    Avg:2,780

    From a 16" barrel that stuff is really moving. I wonder what I'd get from a 20"? 3400 fps? Hell, I've seen people get damn close to the same fps as the 10" Yugo from a 16" barreled AR. I saw some of this on sale but passed, now I'm glad I did. I wonder how fast a 5.56 proof load is?
    Last edited by mastiffhound; 12-24-14 at 11:37.
    Appeasement is never the answer in the face of naked aggression.

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    There are other threads around that express the same conclusion. Its HOT! Blown primers hot.

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    I've shot about 800 rounds of this stuff and have been examining the brass. Haven't noticed a single popped primer yet.

    I still have 500 rounds of it left. I'll probably just shoot it up and never buy it again based on what I've read. But no problems on my end yet.

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    I just pulled down 500 rounds of this stuff and dropped the charge weight from 26.9 grains to 25.3 grains. It's loaded retarded hot. I heard about a contact with Federal where they're starting to play stupid about taking responsibility for the guns this ammo has blown up.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

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    Wow! Is all Independence ammunition that hot, or just the 5.56?

    Seems muzzle velocity is an effective ploy, based on the idiot comments below the video.
    Last edited by sevenhelmet; 12-24-14 at 15:37.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I just pulled down 500 rounds of this stuff and dropped the charge weight from 26.9 grains to 25.3 grains. It's loaded retarded hot. I heard about a contact with Federal where they're starting to play stupid about taking responsibility for the guns this ammo has blown up.
    When I called and asked if they had problems with my lot numbers they played dumb. Acted like they never heard of a problem with this stuff. So that doesn't surprise me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I just pulled down 500 rounds of this stuff and dropped the charge weight from 26.9 grains to 25.3 grains. It's loaded retarded hot. I heard about a contact with Federal where they're starting to play stupid about taking responsibility for the guns this ammo has blown up.
    Could you tell what powder they were using? If not was it ball or stick powder?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I just pulled down 500 rounds of this stuff and dropped the charge weight from 26.9 grains to 25.3 grains. It's loaded retarded hot. I heard about a contact with Federal where they're starting to play stupid about taking responsibility for the guns this ammo has blown up.
    I wonder what powder they use? My 55 gr reloads out of my 20" are always between 3150 and 3200, when I saw it was a 16" getting those velocities I couldn't believe they were loaded that hot. The people in the comments section think it's great? I wonder if someone did the math and found that a recall would cost more than the potential lawsuits?

    Could you tell what powder they were using? If not was it ball or stick powder?
    In the video he got a 26.2 gr charge weight and it looks to be spherical powder, but it could be short cut stick.

    I almost forgot, he stated that it was 53 degrees outside during his testing. I wonder what he would get at 100 degrees?
    Last edited by mastiffhound; 12-24-14 at 16:10.
    Appeasement is never the answer in the face of naked aggression.

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    Some other data points:

    Manufacturer weight type Firearm Length Velocity (fps) SD ES Temp
    M193, Independence XM193I 55 FMJ AR-15 16" 3195 50
    M193, Independence XM193I 55 FMJ AR-15 20" 3343 94

    M193, Federal XM193 55 FMJ AR-15 11.5 2911 36 114 86F
    M193, Federal XM193 55 FMJ AR-15 14.5 2991 15 53 54F
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 03) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3086 27 87
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 08) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3106 27
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 08) 55 FMJ AR-15 20 3232 40
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 14) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3074 42
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 14) 55 FMJ AR-15 20 3244 52

    Looks like its running ~100 fps more than your run of the mill xm193.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Some other data points:

    Manufacturer weight type Firearm Length Velocity (fps) SD ES Temp
    M193, Independence XM193I 55 FMJ AR-15 16" 3195 50
    M193, Independence XM193I 55 FMJ AR-15 20" 3343 94

    M193, Federal XM193 55 FMJ AR-15 11.5 2911 36 114 86F
    M193, Federal XM193 55 FMJ AR-15 14.5 2991 15 53 54F
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 03) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3086 27 87
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 08) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3106 27
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 08) 55 FMJ AR-15 20 3232 40
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 14) 55 FMJ AR-15 16 3074 42
    M193, Federal XM193 (LC 14) 55 FMJ AR-15 20 3244 52

    Looks like its running ~100 fps more than your run of the mill xm193.
    Going by your spread it looks like the Independence lost 37 fps per inch from a 20" to 16" barrel. His 16" average of 3242 fps was higher than yours by 47 fps even though the temp was virtually the same. I wish I knew when both were loaded, was it in the same year, month, week, etc.? He's getting almost the exact same average with the Indy M193 with a 16" barrel (3242 fps) as you are getting with Fed LC14 XM193 out of a 20" (3244 fps). I'll be warning the guys at work away from this stuff for sure.
    Appeasement is never the answer in the face of naked aggression.

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