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Thread: SIG Brace Declared Illegal to Shoulder By The ATF

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Not writing a letter, lets sleeping dogs lie and lets people keep doing what they have been doing.
    There is a cliche that comes to mind, 'ask forgiveness not permission'
    Initially the ATF stated that the sig brace was fine as is, do want you want,sort of, in so many words. The nonsensical controversy which arose was due to the idiocy of certain gun owners not leaving well enough alone, some individuals with nfa sbr's were upset because others were, in their opinions, bypassing the tax stamp /nfa rules and getting an sbr without the trusts,paperwork, tax stamps and the like that they had to undergo. Oh my, it's just not fair. Geez, talk about pansy liberal whining imbeciles you guys were it ! If certain gun owners hadn't comported themselves like moronic spoiled little bitches perpetually asking can i do this ? is legal if I do that ? etc, this would have been a non issue, the original ruling letter would have been fine. Period end of sentence. As others have stated, at times gun owners are their own worst enemies.

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    The letter states that a "redesign" occurs when the brace is used as a shoulder stock. So, merely using the device in a manner for which it was not designed changes the nature of the device.

    So, could it not be argued that misusing a buttstock as a wrist brace constitutes a "redesign" and changes its nature from a buttstock to a legal wrist brace?

    Any time a bureaucrat interprets law, they open a can of worms.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowland_P View Post
    The letter states that a "redesign" occurs when the brace is used as a shoulder stock. So, merely using the device in a manner for which it was not designed changes the nature of the device.

    So, could it not be argued that misusing a buttstock as a wrist brace constitutes a "redesign" and changes its nature from a buttstock to a legal wrist brace?

    Any time a bureaucrat interprets law, they open a can of worms.
    I thought of that actually, I believe you're making the point that if you shoulder the Sig brace and "redesign" it as a stock, you can subsequently use it as a brace and revert it to being "designed" as a brace?

    The problem is at one point you made and owned an illegal/unregistered sbr. The fact that you no longer own one doesn't matter.

    For example, throwing a kilo of meth out the window as cops chase you doesn't reduce your possession charge to littering.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 01-17-15 at 18:44.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #504
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    SIG Brace Declared Illegal to Shoulder By The ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    Our forefathers carried rifles that were 6' long and fired a single shot at a time. I'm pretty sure they would have loved a Sig braced pistol.
    Lol. Absolutely agreed. They would have been one man armies with a sig-braced pistol.
    Last edited by the 556 guy; 01-17-15 at 19:01.

  5. #505
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    That's the logic. If one possesses an AR pistol (that was never a rifle) and adds a "buttstock" that is only ever used as an armbrace, by ATF's logic the buttstock has been redesigned into a legal armbrace. The intent of the design has become irrelevant. The use of the design determines the nature of the device.

  6. #506
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    SIG Brace Declared Illegal to Shoulder By The ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowland_P View Post
    That's the logic. If one possesses an AR pistol (that was never a rifle) and adds a "buttstock" that is only ever used as an armbrace, by ATF's logic the buttstock has been redesigned into a legal armbrace. The intent of the design has become irrelevant. The use of the design determines the nature of the device.
    I'll write a letter and ask this question I'm interested, it's just a letter what's the worst that can happen?:sarcasm:
    Last edited by JulyAZ; 01-17-15 at 19:43.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowland_P View Post
    That's the logic. If one possesses an AR pistol (that was never a rifle) and adds a "buttstock" that is only ever used as an armbrace, by ATF's logic the buttstock has been redesigned into a legal armbrace. The intent of the design has become irrelevant. The use of the design determines the nature of the device.
    But, presumably, only while you're using it.

    In this case--according to ATF logic--as soon as you are finished shooting and stop using the buttstock as an arm brace the firearm becomes an SBR.

    Just make sure you don't hold your AR with one hand--because you will have redesigned it into a pistol.
    Last edited by Frailer; 01-17-15 at 20:29.

  8. #508
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    The SBR crowd backed out of this thread awhile back. The LBP crowd is now just making whimsical statements. The British would have used sig braces, not our forefathers. Hammers, axes and cars are not under the purview of the NFA while firearms are.

    The release of a recent determination letter should make firing a handgun with two hands illegal? Geez. One grip with two hands on it. You can do that with your LBP also.

    How long has the brace idea been around? A few years? How did we ever get by without the braces? Just look at our own AR pistol pic/discussion thread traffic before and after the sig brace. People that wanted pistols had pistols. People that wanted SBRs had SBRs. Along comes the brace and light bulbs go on in peoples head. SBR without registration! I can have it in one day!

    The sig brace had a good run, it has now gone the way of its brother NFA gray area items. The brace fell victim to its owners. Super sweet youtube videos undoubtedly sped up the process. AR style pistols already cost us 7n6. Keep flipping the man the bird please.

  9. #509
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    It's time to start writing letters... to our legislators to put funding pressure on BATFE. Their turnabout on this topic is ridiculous, and this Max dude needs to be shown the door. I hear Home Depot is hiring.
    Ken in Illinois

  10. #510
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    So..."are your really super-duper sure this time?"...jeez. Gonna be a lawsuit; until then, do yourself a favor, do not post pics or video using your armbrace in a way not intended by the original designers..get it?
    "Those who do can't explain; those who don't can't understand"...

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