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Thread: SIG Brace Declared Illegal to Shoulder By The ATF

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHG556 View Post
    Is anyone really surprised by this? Come on, we all know this has been a verbal game since they first commented on the SIG brace.

    The AR15 "pistol" is not a pistol, everyone has always known that.
    The "brace" was never really intended only to be a "brace" but clear was designed to be a should stock as well.

    So finally the ATF has ruled what anyone with an ounce of common sense has been expecting: Hey, if you are using that "brace" to shoulder your "pistol" ... guess what, it ain't a pistol, it's a rifle now.

    The sad thing, assuming this letter is the ATF's latest word on this. is that there are a heck of a lot of people now financially invested in the whole "AR pistol" thing, all based on the "forearm brace" game that has been played for the past couple of years.

    Here's my shocked face:

    The only reason for your sarcasm is because you don't understand what happened.

    The brace was legitimately designed for one handed use. The fact that some people never use it with one hand is like how some people never use a "regular" pistol (like a Glock) with one hand. The end-user's intent and actual use doesn't change the designer's intent. That's common sense. It's also the law.

    The ATF cannot make new laws nor modify old ones via letter to an individual.

    But that's what it did.

    Is anyone surprised that the ATF is doing another illegal thing? No. That's basically in its mission statement. But most are surprised they did it in this manner.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 12-27-14 at 13:12.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post

    The ATF cannot make new laws nor modify old ones via letter to an individual.

    This has been happening for 40 years with every government agency.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #93
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    My patience for fair weather gun owners reached its limit in 2008 with the election of bam bam.

    This queer stock/brace thing will segway into the banning of imported pistol versions of rifles such as the SIG 553, Zastava 92, MKEs, and CZ Skorpion.

    Too many bubba tards have dicked with the system long enough that we are at this point in time.

    You can bitch about the ATF all you want. They are not your equal in discourse. They get to do whatever they want. Bring an issue to their attention and you will not like the outcome. This concept eludes about 50% of the people on internet forums.

    I will have to post my list of items over the past 20 years where the ATF banned something after idiots dicked with the system for too long.
    Last edited by scottryan; 12-27-14 at 13:33.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    You can bitch about the ATF all you want. They are not your equal in discourse. They get to do whatever they want. Bring an issue to their attention and you will not like the outcome. This concept eludes about 50% of the people on internet forums.
    I'd say your estimate is way too low, make it about 90%.


  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    This has been happening for 40 years with every government agency.
    Negative.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    Negative.
    The EPA is trying to regulate puddles of water on farms and golf courses.

    How is this not analogous to what the ATF is doing ?

    What about the IRS targting scandal?
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  7. #97
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    Next will be an opinion letter that shooting a Glock two handed is "redesigning" a pistol into an AOW since the current definition of a pistol specifies "a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand..."

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post

    The ATF cannot make new laws nor modify old ones via letter to an individual.

    But that's what it did.
    "ATF has determined" is all that is required to legislate by decree. We were worried Obama would make AR-15 rifles NFA weapons, ATF already did that with Street Sweeper and USAS 12 shotguns. One day they were Title 1, next day they were DDs.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  9. #99
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    As I recall that had to do with the bore diameter as well. I can't find the particular reference. Not quite the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    "ATF has determined" is all that is required to legislate by decree. We were worried Obama would make AR-15 rifles NFA weapons, ATF already did that with Street Sweeper and USAS 12 shotguns. One day they were Title
    1, next day they were DDs.



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  10. #100
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    scottryan makes a valid point. 7n6 ammo anyone? What do you think would happen if there was readily available 5.56 AP ammo?



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