Page 49 of 54 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 539

Thread: SIG Brace Declared Illegal to Shoulder By The ATF

  1. #481
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,164
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by JulyAZ View Post
    They didn't make the device illegal, a ar pistol if you read the letter with a SB15(X) is still a pistol.

    When shouldering per the letter changes it to a unregistered SBR.

    No where in the letter do they outlaw the SB15.
    This is even worse. They approved its installation on a pistol with a determination letter to Alex Bosco, the inventer and owner of s-b tactical. THEN, they replied to a question asked by a police officer, Sgt. Bradley, specifically stating that the SB=15 IS NOT a stock, that an AR pistol buffer tube may be shouldered, that installing the SB-15 brace does not change the classification of a pistol, and that using an accessory like the SB-15 improperly would not change the classification under federal law. They also stated they classify weapons based on physical characteristics, not use.

    Excerpt from Bradley letter:
    FTB classifies weapons based on their physical design characteristics. While usage/functionality of the weapon does influence the intended design, it is not the sole criterion for determining the classification of a weapon. Generally speaking, we do Dot classifY weapons based on how an individual uses a weapon.

    FTB has previously determined (see FTB # 99146) thaI the firing of a weapon from a particular
    position, such as placing the receiver extension of an AR-I5 type pistol on the user's shoulder, does
    not change the classification of a weapon.Further, certain firearm accessories such as the SIG Stability Brace have not been classified by FTB as shoulder stocks and, therefore, using the brace
    improperly does not constitute a design change. Using such an accessory improperly would not change the classification of the weapon per Federal law. However, FTB cannot recommend using a weapon (or weapon accessory) in a manner not intended by the manufacturer.


    I believe they made the first mistake when they determined the SB-15 is not a stock. IMO it clearly is a stock that can strap to your forearm. Of course, my opinion carries no weight, but it's what I think. It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, .......... it's a damn duck. BUT, since they determined that it iS NOT a stock, they are the ones that created this shit sandwhich. I want to see the original Bradley e-mail. From what I can tell, he didn't even ask about the Sig Brace, just shouldering pistols. But even if he did, the ATF still determined that using the brace improperly did not change the classification. I have no doubt that most who purchased a brace did not acquire one untill the ATF's response to Sgt. Bradley. How many braces did they help Sig sell, who knows. I would like to know their numbers for sales prior to and after the Bradley response.

    Now they release an open letter to the industry saying all other letters are revoked and this is now what counts. They have created a f***ed up situation. IMO, they should be made to buy back braces from owners who want to follow the law and will not shoulder the brace now, or better, waive the $200 tax for brace owners who want to SBR the pistols they bought braces for after learning of the Bradley response. I would have no problem SBR my two pistols and still use the brace on them. I would prefer actual stocks, but then in my opinion, the SB-15 was always a stock, just with a velcro strap and hollow core.

    I know, it's a pipe dream. The real question is will Sig respond with any legal action now that their brace sales will surely plummet.

    ETA on TOS there are reports of SB-15 braces selling new for $90 and used for $40 now. You know that Sig's sales just came to a screeching halt.
    Last edited by DWood; 01-17-15 at 11:44.
    Go in peace, but be prepared for violence.

  2. #482
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    307
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    And just when these things are coming to market at shot




    http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211761
    SB...notgonnabeinbusinessanymore...Tactical
    | 92 - Billennium | Steel-I/96 Stock | WC BrigTac| Elite II | 90-Two G | Inox Brig |
    | 85FS Cheetah | 71 Jaguar | 21a Bobcat | 3032 Tomcat | Model 90 Armi Roma |
    | Sig - 551-A1 ODG | P553 | 522 | P320 FDE |
    | Noveske 10.5" Pistol | AP 12.5" | AP Tungsten SPR | DDM4 V7 in MSP & Elcan |
    | 308 - DSA FAL & Steyr Scout in grey |

  3. #483
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,164
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Now this will be interesting to follow. It's a Cali state charge which may not make it pertinent, but who knows? Hopefully, Leghorn is right and the judge will throw out the illegal SBR charge.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...quipped-ar-15/
    Last edited by DWood; 01-17-15 at 10:37.
    Go in peace, but be prepared for violence.

  4. #484
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    104
    Feedback Score
    0
    From my understanding of the recent open letter on stabilizing braces: While the brace is still legal, "Miss-use" of this device constitutes a "Redesign" and so makes the weapon an SBR.

    If true for ATF, Miss-use (shouldering) an AR pistol bare Receiver extension would constitute the same thing.(Purely my take)

    A concern I have is if this device or stripped RE is shouldered @ an indoor range, what is the range owners responsibility and "risk"??

    This is truly a shit sandwich.......

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,164
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked.
    Go in peace, but be prepared for violence.

  6. #486
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    575
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Dues View Post
    ...(shouldering) an AR pistol bare Receiver extension would constitute the same thing.(Purely my take)
    I don't see how it could be taken any other way. ATF logic has arrived at the conclusion that a pistol fired from the shoulder is a rifle.

    It will be interesting to see how this turns out. The firearms community at large has largely ignored other goofball ATF decisions, because the number of people affected was extremely small. With the recent proliferation of AR pistols this could affect thousands.

  7. #487
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Northern UT
    Posts
    4,023
    Feedback Score
    66 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    And just when these things are coming to market at shot




    http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211761
    Yeah I saw that. I think there's going to be a huge influx of sb15 braces on the EE, and hopefully KAK doesn't go out of business.
    I paint spaceship parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Stippled Glocks are like used underwear; previous owner makes all the difference in value.

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    748
    Feedback Score
    19 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    Yeah I saw that. I think there's going to be a huge influx of sb15 braces on the EE, and hopefully KAK doesn't go out of business.
    Glad i dumped mine 2 weeks ago when everyone was still saying this wouldn't happen. Once the general crowd catches wind of this, their value will be a lot less.

  9. #489
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    17
    Feedback Score
    0
    By their logic, if I shouldered a revolver, would it then be considered a redesign into a NFA item? What about just shouldering the buffer tube? Seems like the ATF has opened a big can of worms.

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    8,539
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dentron View Post
    Glad i dumped mine 2 weeks ago when everyone was still saying this wouldn't happen. Once the general crowd catches wind of this, their value will be a lot less.
    You really think most people will give a damn about selling them? Boy, you sure are pretty slick, beating the rush and all!

    It's still legal to have on your AR pistol; don't be an idiot and shoulder it at a public range and don't post pics to Facebook or videos to YouTube. Pretty simple. I have a home range, the public ain't welcome, and I don't shoot with ATF agents so I'm not running to the EE to "dump" mine.
    Last edited by ABNAK; 01-17-15 at 14:59.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

Page 49 of 54 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •