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Well, a lot. We talked about various construction materials pros and limitations, various mounting methods pros and limitations, weights of muzzle device mounts that were weighed for me as we talked on the phone, reasons for poi shift (much more to it than just this can has less than that can), draw backs to certain cans I had in mind and possible substitutes given my parameters for use and priorities. Basically every thing we are discussing in this thread![]()
Last edited by jerrysimons; 01-08-15 at 21:53.
Thanks for the feedback. Moving away from the MP5 because guns like the 6945 finally came along making a 5.56 package a viable option for the same job. Seems the cost will be some additional weight and less suppression but I think it's close enough to do the job.
Another big factor is cowitness of RDS with factory iron sights which really doesn't seem to exist with the MP5. Last but not least, I had to justify my purchase so I don't have to admit that I just wanted a Delta / Navy SEAL gun.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
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KAC 556 QDC CQB (4.78” 13.2oz, -22dB) bought local for $1350 w/ 556 QDC flashhider (too bad SS doesn't sell KAC). I made this decision over the Socom Mini because I already have some 556 MAMS brakes (2.45oz w/ shims) and I really wanted as light and compact as I could get while still having a combat grade can. I am a little worried the level of suppression will be disappointing on my 16" light-recce and recon mid-lengths but after running the numbers again on weight the 14.7oz Saker K with 3.95oz trifecta brake and the 17oz Socom RC with 3.95oz Socom brake didn't seem very lightweight at 18.65oz and 20.95oz respectively. This can will be hanging on the end of a 35oz 16" barrel with bipod and on a heavyish light-recce that is supposed be a good compromise between a flickable carbine and longer range capability.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...of-the-Gen-IIs
If I can't make the sound suppression level work, I might get the full size QDC (6.69” 18oz, -29dB) or go for the medium sized Saker K. Here are some of the few videos I could find of the KAC 556 QDC CQB:
it seems louder but not horrible. My guns will primarily be shot outside and I will probably wear ear pro anyway.
As far as the talk with SS, I learned a lot and am still in the market for 762 and rimfire cans but feel like I am better equipped to make the decisions.
I don't intend to speak for SS here, if there are any glaring technical errors chalk it up to my misunderstanding and give them a call yourself for clarity.
I learned quality cans from the big manufactures have baffle designs that, in and of themselves, don't really decrease mechanical precision. Taper mounts, where the can screws onto threads on the muzzle device (e.g. Thunder Beast CB models, Griffin Armament Recce models) have the best consistency and minimal POI shift. They don't lock the can into place but due to the can screwing down on top of the mount and making contact with more surface area on the mount there is a lot of friction keeping the can in place. When properly installed, taper mount cans are not easily unscrewed. Realistically most AR users would not have an issue with a taper mount suppressor loosening but at the same time the AR platform my not be able to take full advantage inherent consistency the way a precision bolt guns can. The Compression mounts like Surefire and Saker (and KAC) are just behind taper mounts in consistency due to less contact with the muzzle device and they have the added variable of how tight the user turns the mount down each time. Compression mounts usually lock the can into place with some sort of detent mechanism or latch. AACs rachet design is not quit a compression design. Direct thread suppressors do not have the same friction holding them in place as threaded taper mount suppressors, so users may have issues with the can loosening where taper mounts and obviously locking compression mounts would not.
POI shift is a subjective thing. One can on ten different hosts of the same make and model will likely have different POI shift on each gun. It is not a matter so much of this can design has less POI shift than that can design but of the overall combination of factors involved: barrel harmonics due to profile, manufacturing process like stress relief and proper assembly as well as muzzle thread concentricity and suppressor mounting method all play a part. I asked specifically about the Sakers compared to Surefire with POI shift and he said from his experience they are on par.
I am looking at the AAC Element 2 for a pistol/rifle rimfire can because it is lightweight and can also be used up to 17hmr. I thought this was my only option but the Liberty Essence was also brought to my attention as having the same caliber ratings and 4oz weight but with the benefit of being easier to clean due to a solid baffle unit over the stacked single baffles of the Element 2.
I was pretty set on the Saker 762 for my MWS (which is set up as a mobil longish-range thumper "sharpshooter") but in addition to the obvious other choices like Surefire and AAC we talked about Griffon Armament and these cans look impressive. 'Don't know what I'll do yet, still leaning towards the Saker but I am also liking the idea of the titanium Thunder Beast 30BC7or9 (3.5oz brake) since the MWS kitted up is a pig and the Saker 762 is 25-26oz with brake. Titanium is not a fragile construction material and will more than meet the durability needs of most AR SPR type guns. As long as you aren't doing mag dumps over and over, like was mentioned earlier in this thread, Ti is a good way to go if you don't get it hot and keep shooting without letting it cool first. I think a Ti can would also be good on a dedicated HD SBR like SteyrAUG's. A Ti can is not going to overheat in a HD scenario and you will get the suppression levels of a full-volume can with the weight of the smaller cans. For $819 with mount, I think the Thunder Beast Arms 223cb (7.2”, 14.2oz, compact brake 3.5oz =17.4oz total) might be a great choice for Steyr's HD SBR sine suppression and weight are toward the top of the list. The Compact brake will also function as a sacrificial baffle on the short barrel as well but I don't know if the can is warrantied for 10" SBR.
Last edited by jerrysimons; 01-08-15 at 21:52.
OK, so I think I have a winner.
Since I'm pleased with the suppression of the HALO but find it a bit too heavy, I'm going to start with a Gemtech GMT which will actually be lighter than the Specwar or the SOCOM RC. This should give me everything I need and I'm already familiar with the HALO mounting system and it's rated for 10.3" barrels and full auto fire so it should satisfy all my wants and needs.
Eventually I'm going to add a Surefire RC to the collection and if I don't find the suppression levels suitable when mounted on my 6945 or 6933 I'll just run it on something else. Might end up being my SIG 553 suppressor when I get one of those squared away.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
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"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson.
Thanks for mentioning them. I was already aware of the Trek T but had dismissed it. Finding out the HALO is now available in a Titanium can rated for full auto really did seal the deal. Just wish it was available in black or grey. That desert tan is going to look kinda retarded on my 6945.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
كافر
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