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Thread: I am still a little confused about trusts...

  1. #11
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    It isn't a matter of getting it to go through , just potential estate planning, hopefully no criminal issues, that could pop up down the line

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWaylon View Post
    I don't know if I agree with that. I paid a lawyer for mine. In looking through it, there's all kinds of NFA/BATFE verbiage. However, there's not one single bit of it that isn't already covered by ATF/NFA regulations.

    There's a whole bunch of "must follow all ATF, federal, state and local laws" statements. Several mentions of not transferring or being in possession without ATF approval. Mention of 5320.20 forms for out of state travel. All kinds of that stuff over and over...every bit which is still true with a "regular" trust.
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    No, it does not "need to be". It "may be", or "it can be helpful" but legally it does not need to be.
    By "needs to be", I should have clarified in my personal opinion. I don't like taking chances when playing in the ATF's vast grey area. We know they are already trying to make changes to the way trusts are handled, so I like the added comfort and want my trust to be as future proof as possible. But y'all are correct, legally speaking you can get away with a lot less. For now.
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  3. #13
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    199trust and call it a day. Submitted over 20 items and never had an issue. Do something simple like your first initial and then last name followed by NFA Trust... (J. Doe NFA Trust). Short and easy for engraving. If you only plan to use it for NFA items, I don't see why you would spend more doing it somewhere else. And you have your trust in 2 days. Just my .02
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedRacer View Post
    By "needs to be", I should have clarified in my personal opinion. I don't like taking chances when playing in the ATF's vast grey area. We know they are already trying to make changes to the way trusts are handled, so I like the added comfort and want my trust to be as future proof as possible. But y'all are correct, legally speaking you can get away with a lot less. For now.
    And just to present the opposite side of it, here in NC there were issues a couple years ago surrounding having a trust solely for the possession of NFA items. So, having Smith Firearms Trust or Smith NFA Trust raised several red flags.

    However, having Smith Living Trust, which happened to hold firearms, wasn't an issue.

    Trusts are simply legal vessels for holding property, regardless of what they're named.

    Bottom line is do what you're comfortable with, in regards to source, cost and verbiage. The ATF issuing you a stamp is a very minor part of the process.

  5. #15
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    If the trust is for expensive transferable full autos, I recommend having an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts prepare the trust.

    If all you want are a couple of SBRs or silencers, then the other home-brew options don't create as much financial risk.
    "Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony ... take that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house,.." VP Joe Biden Feb 19, 2013

  6. #16
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    I have a few items on a quicken trust that went through fine but I wanted a nfa specific trust. I had a trust setup through the silencer shop recommendation but I found the trust overly complicated for what I wanted, ymmv, (need 2 witnesses for the signing that is not part of the trust, address change is an additional charge, and a few other things that were more time/money consuming). I never submitted anything on that trust and purchased another trust from a pnw nfa trust group and for my needs it's simpler and easier to update, ymmv. I have 3 suppressors and 2 form 1's pending so I'll see what happens in a few weeks on the form 1's.
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  7. #17
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    Well I guess what I am asking is what are the differences? Pros/cons?

    There really is nothing out there explaining the differences between each or what you really get with it...

    Also, ya sure you are gonna get approved if its valid, but what about when the trust is necessary to pass down your items? Or do you guys not care and just want possession of nfa items the easier way?

    Also, when I was mentioning $600, that was for a Phoenix lawyer who was recommended.
    Last edited by mrvip27; 01-31-15 at 15:18.

  8. #18
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    All I care about is the approval for the items and am not worried about passing down items. If you have a large collection (including non-nfa items) that you want to pass down then maybe a local lawyer would be better as you acquire new items or want changes made. Usually, but not always, it looks like the more expensive trusts are setup for things more complicated than just simple nfa possession. Definitely ask the lawyer drafting the trust what the limitations are inherent in the trust and what's required for changes (schedule A you should be able to change on your own).
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGWS View Post
    All I care about is the approval for the items and am not worried about passing down items. If you have a large collection (including non-nfa items) that you want to pass down then maybe a local lawyer would be better as you acquire new items or want changes made. Usually, but not always, it looks like the more expensive trusts are setup for things more complicated than just simple nfa possession. Definitely ask the lawyer drafting the trust what the limitations are inherent in the trust and what's required for changes (schedule A you should be able to change on your own).
    I guess if that is what you are wanting to, then I suppose that makes sense.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo_Man View Post

    You can spend the $$ on lawyer to get a trust or you can cheap out like I did and get one. At the end of the day if the ATF wants to demolish trusts they will and how much you paid will mean nothing.
    Not true. The ATF may decide to disallow trusts in the future, but if they do, existing, valid trusts will remain. Don’t believe me? Call your trust lawyer. (Oh … that’s right … you don’t have one. Well, internet rumor and speculation are just as good, right? And they’re free.)

    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyDrunk View Post

    I've heard some states have specific requirements for trusts.
    Each state is unique. State A may have similar trust laws to State B (although it’s unlikely that they will be 100% identical, and the minor details can be critical), but that doesn’t mean that a trust drafted according to State A’s laws will be valid in State B. Maybe, maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedRacer View Post

    But y'all are correct, legally speaking you can get away with a lot less. For now.
    For now. Aye, there’s the rub. BATF examiners are not attorneys. They just review your trust to see if it “looks” OK. If it does (and most Quicken and other pretend trusts look OK to the untrained eye), then you get your stamp. But if your trust is ever challenged in the future, you can bet that it will be thoroughly examined by experts in your state’s trust law … and if those experts decide that your pretend trust doesn’t meet all of your state’s requirements, then you san say adios to your collection of NFA toys … and possibly adios to your freedom as well.

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