New to long range shooting need advice for 308 come ups

[markm]

Negative, 3.5 mils = 12.03 MOA:

I must have googled the wrong conversion site.

You should see how messed up it gets if an MOA shooter comes out with us.

[Failure2Stop]

Ok, just noticed that you're using the MOAR reticle and are tied to MOA.
I don't know if NF uses true MOA or SMOA for their reticle and/or adjustment.
This is not a big deal for most, but depending on your actual range and target size, it might be.

Here's why:
The difference between MOA and Inches ("Shooters MOA") at 1000 yards is about 17":
-378.3 Inches / -36.1 MOA.

[Failure2Stop]

I must have googled the wrong conversion site.

You should see how messed up it gets if an MOA shooter comes out with us.

I refuse to shoot with MOA people.




Mostly kidding.

[Ming_the_Merciless]

I must have googled the wrong conversion site.

You should see how messed up it gets if an MOA shooter comes out with us.

I refuse to shoot with MOA people.




Mostly kidding.

Yeah, tell me about it. I hate the delay spotting for MOA shooters, converting from mils to MOAs. If I don't have a calculator on hand, it helps to have my hold over chart in both mils and MOA, and I use that for reference for the MOA shooter, but by the time I make the call, the wind most definitely died down and now I'm struggling to make a new call before it changes again.

Ok, just noticed that you're using the MOAR reticle and are tied to MOA.
I don't know if NF uses true MOA or SMOA for their reticle and/or adjustment.
This is not a big deal for most, but depending on your actual range and target size, it might be.

Here's why:
The difference between MOA and Inches ("Shooters MOA") at 1000 yards is about 17":
-378.3 Inches / -36.1 MOA.

Jack's correct again. Here's the supporting math for those that want to follow through:

To derive what 1 SMOA is equal to (in terms of MOA):


So using the above example, bullet drop of 378.3" at 1000 yards:


A hold over of 36.12 MOA actually corresponds to 37.82 SMOA:


If the shooter dials in 36.12 SMOA in error, not knowing they have turrets that correspond to 1" at 100 yards, oppose to 1.047" at 100 yards, then what is that error?


We know our bullet drop is actually at 378.3", but the shooter's turret are IPHY (one inch per hundred yards), then the error is the difference, striking high approximately 17" as Jack said:

[Pappabear]

I'm far to fkn dumb to convert to moa. It's most "hunting " scopes are MOA. It surprises me how proliferic they still are.

[skywalkrNCSU]

I have been researching scopes and figuring out what I want for my bolt gun for long distance shooting and I understand how most people use mils but moa just makes so much more sense to me. I feel like I could pick up a moa scope and be able to range and adjust my shots with just a little practice because I can think about how it works a lot easier doing the math in my head. I am a bit concerned about not getting a mil scope but I don't really shoot with others and I have a long long way to go before I would be doing anything like competition shooting.

I guess if I ever did shoot with mil guys I would just take a cheat sheet with a bunch of mil/moa conversions on it. I'm surprised there isn't some sort of slider tool that would do it for you (there might be and I just don't know about it).

[Failure2Stop]

I have been researching scopes and figuring out what I want for my bolt gun for long distance shooting and I understand how most people use mils but moa just makes so much more sense to me. I feel like I could pick up a moa scope and be able to range and adjust my shots with just a little practice because I can think about how it works a lot easier doing the math in my head. I am a bit concerned about not getting a mil scope but I don't really shoot with others and I have a long long way to go before I would be doing anything like competition shooting.

I guess if I ever did shoot with mil guys I would just take a cheat sheet with a bunch of mil/moa conversions on it. I'm surprised there isn't some sort of slider tool that would do it for you (there might be and I just don't know about it).

We didn't all stop shooting MOA based optics because they worked great.
I understand though, sometimes folks have to suffer through other's experience.
I do assure you though that following the MIL/MIL path will save you money on the front end.

One significant factor is that people think that because they think that they can visualize an inch that holds will be easier.
The issue with this is several-fold:
1: Determining length at distance is difficult, and you need an angular measurement anyway.
2: Most people can't accurately determine actual length at arms distance anyway.
3: Mil based holds are not tied to metric measurements, but are simply 10 (100, 1000) based measurements.
4: You will need to have someone teach you how to actually shoot at long range anyway, regardless of whether you have a shooting buddy or not. Virtually none of these folks shoot with MOA based optics.
4A: Long range shooting without a spotter is an exercise in frustration.

There are easy conversions for MIL to MOA, but you wouldn't use it for long anyway, since you will need a custom table for your gun and load anyway. Get a good ballistic calculator, even if just to make your cheat sheet.

[Hootiewho]

OP, depending on where you are at in GA you have tons of resources. Elberton gun club has 1000 yard day and night F'classish/field benchrest matches nearly monthly.

Chief O'Neil has a good match at Gunsite Hills. He is a very good dude, but very direct. Thick skin is needed, but the dude has a great heart if you get to know him. He will also teach you most of what you need to know.

Joe Harris runs Creekside range north of ATL. He also runs I think bi-monthly classes/matches and runs the Mammoth Sniper Challenge out of the excellent Legion Range in South GA. He is another solid dude. Hell Legion has a 400, 1000, & 2300 yard range. I took my AI AX338 there a while back and got hits to 2200 on a IDPA steel target.

Contact Thomas Woods at Accurate Ordnance as I believe he has a basic level training course at Legion coming up soon too.

You also have the Hardrock Match over in AL.

K&M has training and great matches down in the panhandle of FL.

I urge you to make it out to one of these places, or even ride up to Woody's Match in NC. You'll learn a ton in doing so as in general the long range competition community is much more open to help new shooters than any other branch I have seen. You can either shoot, or not; there is no BS'ing if you can hit a sub MOA target at 800 in a field expedient position under time. So in my experience, there is much less ego and gaming in general and usually just good dudes.

Also, don't think that dope is concrete. It will change some. Especially if you go shoot in FL one weekend and go up into the mountains the next.

[Hootiewho]

Also, sniper's hide use to have a great online training program, they may still; IDK. You have to pay a bit for access, but for a beginner, there is a wealth of info there.

[skywalkrNCSU]

We didn't all stop shooting MOA based optics because they worked great.
I understand though, sometimes folks have to suffer through other's experience.
I do assure you though that following the MIL/MIL path will save you money on the front end.

One significant factor is that people think that because they think that they can visualize an inch that holds will be easier.
The issue with this is several-fold:
1: Determining length at distance is difficult, and you need an angular measurement anyway.
2: Most people can't accurately determine actual length at arms distance anyway.
3: Mil based holds are not tied to metric measurements, but are simply 10 (100, 1000) based measurements.
4: You will need to have someone teach you how to actually shoot at long range anyway, regardless of whether you have a shooting buddy or not. Virtually none of these folks shoot with MOA based optics.
4A: Long range shooting without a spotter is an exercise in frustration.

There are easy conversions for MIL to MOA, but you wouldn't use it for long anyway, since you will need a custom table for your gun and load anyway. Get a good ballistic calculator, even if just to make your cheat sheet.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I need to still do more research and understand how the mil system works better. Good news is I haven't spent any money yet. Is there any advantage to mils vs mrad? The way I understand it the adjustments are the same so I am not too sure the difference.