Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

[BuzzinSATX]

I sacrifice security and a completely self reliant lifestyle for the happiness of my family. IMO, life is to be lived to the fullest while being as prepared as can reasonably be. I have no to desire to live as a hermit for 30 years just in case SHTF. I will live the same lifestyle as if there would never be a threat. Only difference is that I do all in my power to be prepared for the worst.

+3. Other than having to relocate due to weather/natural disaster, I never really understood the whole "head for the hills" idea. Like there wouldn't be others vying for the same resources if things got that bad.


Take Care,

Buzz

[JusticeM4]

+3. Other than having to relocate due to weather/natural disaster, I never really understood the whole "head for the hills" idea. Like there wouldn't be others vying for the same resources if things got that bad.


Take Care,

Buzz

The Bugout plans make sense for those who are alone, either single or not attached to any family. I have a friend who is like that. Single guy in his 30's, no kids, not close to his immediate family at all. Spends his money on guns, car/motorcycle, and prepping stuff.

[BuzzinSATX]

The Bugout plans make sense for those who are alone, either single or not attached to any family. I have a friend who is like that. Single guy in his 30's, no kids, not close to his immediate family at all. Spends his money on guns, car/motorcycle, and prepping stuff.

I understand why a single person, or even a small group would be at risk in bad situations, but my scenario was someone headed for some obscure remote location with no established structure for support. A single/couple/small group headed to a known location where they meet up with more of their clan makes perfect sense and wasn't what I was talking about.

Finally, a single guy/gal who is truly a loner would have a hard time without some form of social unit for support, regardless where they relocate, unless we are talking about extreme isolation. Just few places where one can go where others won't follow.

Not trying to argue with your point, and it's entirely possible I'm missing it all together.

[JusticeM4]

I understand why a single person, or even a small group would be at risk in bad situations, but my scenario was someone headed for some obscure remote location with no established structure for support. A single/couple/small group headed to a known location where they meet up with more of their clan makes perfect sense and wasn't what I was talking about.

Finally, a single guy/gal who is truly a loner would have a hard time without some form of social unit for support, regardless where they relocate, unless we are talking about extreme isolation. Just few places where one can go where others won't follow.

Not trying to argue with your point, and it's entirely possible I'm missing it all together.

The point is to be self-sufficient, not rely on any kind of support.

Consider that even in weather-related disasters your support may not even really come, at least not for a long time depending on your location and situation.

It just depends on the group or individual and how they plan. I understand your point though, and for most of us the loner or isolated/unsupported situation may not be feasable. Some people plan for that though. I've heard folks who have generators with gas, or plenty of wood/lighting supplies, food, seeds, etc.

[BuzzinSATX]

The point is to be self-sufficient, not rely on any kind of support.

Consider that even in weather-related disasters your support may not even really come, at least not for a long time depending on your location and situation.

It just depends on the group or individual and how they plan. I understand your point though, and for most of us the loner or isolated/unsupported situation may not be feasable. Some people plan for that though. I've heard folks who have generators with gas, or plenty of wood/lighting supplies, food, seeds, etc.

All good points. No argument that the best any of us can do is plan for what we perceive to be future bad situations and do our best to mitigate them and survive/thrive.


Take Care,

Buzz

[Straight Shooter]

MY personal biggest fears: 1. Being in a SHTF situation..and after DECADES of training...shooting...expense on gear & training...some sideways shootin ****stick who never fired 100 rounds in his life makes the luckiest ****in shot of his life and hits/kills me on my way to home. BOY...will I be PISSED!! Anyway..this is why Ill be covert nearly 100% of the time. I absolutely see where there are times where overt will be the call, though. But, I liken this to why I NEVER open carry...I just don't want the damned attention. Some goober with a 30-30 lookin out his kitchen window, or some hood rat poppin up out of a dumpster and poppin a cap in my ass just aint gonna cut it.
Should I be on foot....Ill go as far as I safely can, and I hole up as I aint afraid to hit the woods at night to travel, I prefer it actually. Slow & steady & quiet like.
2. EMP attack and things really do turn out like in ONE SECOND AFTER. To me..this is the absolute worst scenario of them all. No vehicles, no help, no electricity, no phones...NOTHING electronic at all. In about a week or so...most of the spoon feds in society now will be apeshit crazy. Those who were evil minded before and were only held back from fear of police and the law...will be completely free to roam at will now. So..WHAT YOU GOT....IS WHAT YOU GOT, PERIOD. No going to Wally World to "stock up"...or no going anywhere except on foot.
I got 45 miles to southern middle TN to family,friends & gf...so its BLACK CADILLAC time. I aint the young jarhead I was 30+ years ago..even tho I think I am sometimes. My carry load will be strickly weapons, ammo, water and water filtration devices, a little food..all in my old ALICE pack.
Rifle: LMT Defender with at least 6-8 mags. Pistol: Either the G17 or G41 with many extra mags. Surefire lights, and weapon lights on the guns, with extra batts. Two blades: Spyderco Police and my big Onterio Bowie. Small transistor radio with earbuds.
Once I fully confirm this has happened..SPEED will be my greatest asset...I mean not waiting to act but to get my shit on and GO! Itll be a 3 day deal getting home and I figure in that time frame Ill be ok.
My biggest asset I believe is my MINDSET. Hell, I don't know what..IF ANYTHING...will happen in this crazy assed world & country we now live in. BUT- NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, will surprise me. I ABSOLUTELY will not rely, depend on, or expect ANY form of help from ANY person or entity...ESPECIALLY & ABOVE ALL from a State or Federal agency. **** THEM. Its ME and my gear and training.
And that's the way I like it, actually.

[readyme]

Great thread Doc....(and yes, I did take the last hour to read it all)
Lots of great ideas and discussion.

I live 30 miles from work, so I am able to get home by foot if need be. I need to go home to my wife and 6 year old child.
Basically everything I do is to go unnoticed and make it home so I can protect and provide for my family. We are lucky to have multiple neighbors on our street that are very close and have the same mindset.
In my car is my backpack which is essentially my regular camping backpack...with the addition of ammo and an IFAK. This will allow me to make it back home, even if I am a couple days away.

I agree with most folks that covert is the way to go.
I think you can convey a sense of strength and "don't F with me" in appearance and how you carry yourself. I could step up to overt chest rig etc, but I think this would only be on specific "missions" when I/we leave the house/neighborhood. In such case, I am moving from point A -> point B, and don't want to be seen as a "quick meal".

Daily carry G19 + extra mag, pocket knife, multi tool, flashlight, lock picks, lighter.
House or car = 72 hour pack, AR, IFAK, ammo, food, water filter.

Clothing:
In my area (urban, suburban) solid colors are the norm.
I do have some multicam stuff, but that is used for hunting/camping...and would only come out in the woods.
My preference is Vertx pants, hiking shoes and button down travel shirt. All synthetics do the best in the wet/cold.

[Jpoe88]

I'm still all very new to this. Ideally I'd be with my family but realistically, I would be 75 miles from home in the woods and a blizzard would come thru while I'm 2 miles deep hunting. Is get back to the truck to find the battery dead. My family would be home safe, but unfortunately I'd be caught with my pants down hypothetically.

In the hunting pack I have preparations to start a fire, build shelter, dry clothes in waterproof bag, a sustainment for a few days in ideal situation.

That's probably not going to be the situation, but we are in the process of making our plan. A real disaster for me happened April 27, 2011 when a Tornado tore thru my community and I was at work and had no phone service. I was one of the first people on foot before any LE or medical was on the ground. I was coming home and could see the tornado In the distance.
Phones were dead roads were blocked by trees and debris and only had insight that a home in the adjacent neighborhood to my parents had been destroyed. I had to hoof it 6 miles thru debris to see my parents and ensure their safety and another 4 to reach my fiancé and another 5 to see my daughter. Absolutely the worst thing I have ever been thru. And I had NOTHING.

Currently my edc pack has two spare mags for my xd9, bottled water, small first aid kit, fire starting material, few glitches sticks, life straw, rain gear, change of clothes, gerber mp600 multi tool, KA bar bk2, phone charger and a dymo crank radio that has USB port. It's more of a truck pack but it can get me home. I need to add a topo map. I have a flashlight and spare batteries, and have small food provisions. Keep a pair of $.99 flip flops in the truck as well in the event of needing feet to breathe.

The standing plan is "I will find you. Go home if possible. If you have to leave, give me a location to find you." She also has a bag in her trunk with overnight provisions for the three of us. The plan will need more tweaking since she's about to start working (new RN in the house!) which means she will be needed in an emergency so my son will be priority for me to collect safely.

[nof555]

Covert all the way, all the time. As others have already said, traveling overtly makes you a target. The key in my opinion isn't necessarily to travel covertly or overtly but to not be seen at all. If shtf I would only travel at night unless absolutely necessary. Traveling all kitted out will only draw attention to yourself and your group. People may not take action against you immediately but follow you to your house and make it a target. The only time I would be overt is if a threat enters the perimeter of my property. Besides that, travel at night when possible, and be as inconspicuous as possible.

[docsherm]

There have been some really good post in this thread and I can tell that some thought has been put into it.


Here is the reason that I started the thread, to try and get an understanding on the mind set that people are thinking about. Most think that Covert is the way to go and I can completely understand that way of thinking. That is want I was trying to get down to. As someone that has been in some very bad places, sometimes with as few people as one other person, I can tell you that that is going to be the biggest handicap during the situation. A person can't think like a normal American because we are not wired like that.

In a real SHTF situation the thought process MUST change with the environment. We society breaks down people will get primal real fast, especially here in the US where we have become used to getting everything we want right now. People will go from mild manner banker to Somali Warlord in a few weeks under the right conditions. Everything can deteriorate very fast with this perceptions and actions must change also. People are primal and may not respect but will fear power. Perception is reality. If they think that you are the biggest bad-ass around they are not going to mess with you. If you are guarding your home with you family and some guy rolls up in a tank you are most likely not going to start to flex and have a pissing contest with them. A good way to look at it is prison yard rules; if there is some giant animal in the yard the small and weak are going to gravitate to them for protection and he will soon have the largest group in the prison. He may look like a complete bad ass but is a total dork, but the likelihood of someone testing it is low. In a real SHTF that bad ass looking dork will have gained a large following and by the time that normal people have changed their mindset it is too late.

Can this be done with a few people or does it have to be a large group? A well organised group can be small as long as their SH!# is wired tight and their actions are as consistent as their appearance. A platoon size element of people thrown together is going to think real hard about attacking an ODA rolling down the street as long as they have a reputation (real or perceived). The actions are the hardest part. This is where the mind set must really change. This must be done in order to achieve the full desired effect. Mary Poppins is going to be looked at very different then Attila the Hun not just because of appearance but because of their actions. No am I condoning a Salt the Earth campaign plan to go the the river to get water......absolutely not. Although you must look at things and act different then you look at them now.

Now am I saying that you should flaunt everything that have all of the time, hell no. The situation dictates how you act. Never discount an option. Have it in your bag a tricks. Just because you can't think of a reason you would every roll heavy does not mean that you should not prepare for a time when you may need to.

Again, this is just a mental exercise and no answers are wrong.

Keep up the great conversation.