Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

[Moose-Knuckle]

buff, think neck gaiter or sunscreen. Can be pulled up to cover your nose and mouth as well as over the back of your head ..http://buffusa.com/sports?gclid=CLLa...FQ-saQodVDIAXw

kool aid, coffee .. maybe needed or even just wanted
candies .. quick energy also a comfort item
aluminum foil, large trash bags, zip lock bags, lots of uses .. like 100mph tape and paracord.

The Buffs are great, stumbled upon them at a big box sporting goods retailer last year and they are on the short list of things to add to the hot weather/sun protection preps.

I too keep packets of instant coffee/tea bags and Jolly Ranchers in our kits. I love the Pedialyte Powder Packs for this reason, think oral IV. http://pedialyte.com/products/powder-packs#variety-pack

These items not only keep one up and running but they are a great morale booster as well. If you are cold and having to live out of your GHB/BOB/etc. a hot cup of joe or tea goes along way in the morale dept.

[Outlander Systems]

Covert...all day long, and twice on Sunday.

Avoidance of other people at all costs if possible. I live about fifteen miles from work, and I would have zero problems getting to the crib via my shitkickers.

I sold my PC/Plates. If the world went south, you can forget vehicle support, and without vehicle support, plates ****ing suck. Plus, they make going prone a complete pain in the ass. In this world of tactically dynamic battle-space CQB interdiction faggotry, everyone seems to forget the fundamentals of SUT and marksmanship.

I pretty much have a layered system of hiking/backpacking/BO gear with me at all times. My work environment affords me to dress however I want, so cargos, boots, and riggers belts are "professional attire" for me.

Like you, doc, the Multitool is with me on a daily basis. I keep a Kabar TDI on me at all times, and I always have a machete/axe/large knife with me for work (Land Surveyor). Until I lost my JetBoil, it was my daily lunch companion. I've since replaced it with a small stove similar to a MSR pocket rocket.

For me, a SHTF event would be like my normal daily activities, minus vehicle support, and no electricity at the home.

My rural property is tucked well away from the urban cesspool, and I have access there to a constant supply of freshwater via well, or the river.

Unless we get so far as to be characters on the Walking Dead, my AR is strictly for popping hogs and coyotes. My primary would be a Beretta 92A1. I EDC two spares. I keep two more in my EDC bag.

For me, I will trade firepower for mobility and concealment every chance I get.

[docsherm]

Good discussion so far. I like how everyone is explaining their thought process. Very informative.


Food for thought.

Everyone is heavily leaning towards the Covert side of things. As a discussion point could the simple use of Overt Gear work as a force protection measure? If you are a predator looking for an easy target wouldn't you go to the group or individual that looks unprepared? In their shoes are you going after a person loaded out of looking plain? If you are in the middle of a bunch of panicked people it could also cause more problem than it is worth because people my look to you for help.

Just something to think about. Everything is situational.

[Ironman8]

Good discussion so far. I like how everyone is explaining their thought process. Very informative.


Food for thought.

Everyone is heavily leaning towards the Covert side of things. As a discussion point could the simple use of Overt Gear work as a force protection measure? If you are a predator looking for an easy target wouldn't you go to the group or individual that looks unprepared? In their shoes are you going after a person loaded out of looking plain? If you are in the middle of a bunch of panicked people it could also cause more problem than it is worth because people my look to you for help.

Just something to think about. Everything is situational.

Personally, I think going overt will depend on alot of things, but honestly may bring more problems than solutions. IMO, overt would fit well where you are part of a neighborhood watch where the members all get jocked up for patrol and everyone in the community knows you're the good guy. Or, you have a situation where you need to go outside of "friendly lines" and things are bad enough that you (with 3+ more squared away dudes - preferably) will be rolling through with a purpose and prepared to dish out the pain at the slightest hint of a threat.

The reason I think it would bring more problems than anything is due to pre-emptive action and/or target of opportunity. For example, trying to walk around in an unsecured neighborhood with your PC and rifle slung may draw some pre-emptive fire from Bubba sitting on a rooftop with his 30-06. Or, if there's still some semblance of law and order, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a First Responder's pre-emptive action (LEO, Natl. Guard, ect.) that thinks he's doing the right thing neutralizing what looks like a threat. As far as target of opporunity, I can see where you would present a hard enough target that criminals may move along...but a smart criminal will attack you from behind if you present a target that he knows he can't defeat head on. Body armor, weapons, ammo, and gear is a pretty good score for a criminal who is operating with just a handgun who happens to get the drop on you.

Ultimately, IMO, going overt outside of your secured AO would need to be done in a group where 360* coverage can be attained and/or when things have gone so sideways that everybody is openly displaying arms (the new norm) and a threat of a gunfight is expected.

[Outlander Systems]

Ironman articulated my point, better than myself.

If one is decked out in The latest Kryptek fashions, rocking a PC, and strolling around, back on the block with a slung weapon, It says, "looking for a fight".

I do not, in any way, see combat load outs as a deterrent in a WROL situational sitch.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Personally, I think going overt will depend on alot of things, but honestly may bring more problems than solutions. IMO, overt would fit well where you are part of a neighborhood watch where the members all get jocked up for patrol and everyone in the community knows you're the good guy. Or, you have a situation where you need to go outside of "friendly lines" and things are bad enough that you (with 3+ more squared away dudes - preferably) will be rolling through with a purpose and prepared to dish out the pain at the slightest hint of a threat.

The reason I think it would bring more problems than anything is due to pre-emptive action and/or target of opportunity. For example, trying to walk around in an unsecured neighborhood with your PC and rifle slung may draw some pre-emptive fire from Bubba sitting on a rooftop with his 30-06. Or, if there's still some semblance of law and order, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a First Responder's pre-emptive action (LEO, Natl. Guard, ect.) that thinks he's doing the right thing neutralizing what looks like a threat. As far as target of opporunity, I can see where you would present a hard enough target that criminals may move along...but a smart criminal will attack you from behind if you present a target that he knows he can't defeat head on. Body armor, weapons, ammo, and gear is a pretty good score for a criminal who is operating with just a handgun who happens to get the drop on you.

Ultimately, IMO, going overt outside of your secured AO would need to be done in a group where 360* coverage can be attained and/or when things have gone so sideways that everybody is openly displaying arms (the new norm) and a threat of a gunfight is expected.

This is spot on, my thoughts on the matter exactly.

[Moose-Knuckle]

If I may address attire for a moment and how it relates to “Overt/Covert”:

As a kid growing up I wore woodland BDU pants a lot as my favorite cartoon was G.I. Joe and my favorite TV show was The A-Team. My dad told me one time as I got older to dial it back a bit otherwise I could be taken as "radical". Didn't really sink in at the time but as I went with him to gun shows I started seeing what he meant. To date I do not own any MC/Kyptek/whatever clothing and or gear. I do not want people to perceive me to be MIL in a crisis and or an SKS toting militia buffoon.

For rural areas camouflage kit is great for blending in to one's environment however you stick out like a sore thumb in an urban center and the burbs. I buy all my clothes and gear in Earth tones to include cold and hot weather. Daily wear for me in cold months is a pair of Duluth Fire Hose cargo pants and hiking boots, in hot months its Tru-Spec 24/7 cargo shorts and trail runners. I need cargos for my EDC kit, jeans are useless to me. Both the Duluth pants and the Tru-Spec shorts have hidden pockets inside the front pockets and or the side pockets that accommodate spare pistol mags/multi-tool, flashlight, etc.

This segues into vehicle preps since most of us have to drive to a job for a living it only makes sense to keep essentials in the vehicles. My wife works a white collar office career and has to dress accordingly. We have her a pair of hiking boots/socks along with her GHB in the trunk of her car in the event she has to go it on foot. Seeing images of office workers having to egress from Manhattan on 9/11 in heels and loafers through the debris and chaos really drove this point home for me. At the time I worked an office gig myself but wore Dr. Martin boots with my khakis so it was a non-issue for me then. Now that I work in LE I NEVER wear my uniform any place other than work. Should things go pear shaped it is the first thing I would ditch as it is a target indicator. I would then don my version of urban camouflage (cargos/t-shirt/softshell and a ball cap) for the trek home.

[BuzzinSATX]

My modus operandi is always to be the gray man. Being a practioner of this philosophy "Covert" applies 90% of the time. ... gray man do not wish to draw attention to self if at all possible.

I agree with this. I see being overt as being a target... to the greatest extent possible, I want to blend in and go unnoticed...

[BuzzinSATX]

If I may address attire for a moment and how it relates to “Overt/Covert”:

As a kid growing up I wore woodland BDU pants a lot as my favorite cartoon was G.I. Joe and my favorite TV show was The A-Team. My dad told me one time as I got older to dial it back a bit otherwise I could be taken as "radical". Didn't really sink in at the time but as I went with him to gun shows I started seeing what he meant. To date I do not own any MC/Kyptek/whatever clothing and or gear. I do not want people to perceive me to be MIL in a crisis and or an SKS toting militia buffoon.

For rural areas camouflage kit is great for blending in to one's environment however you stick out like a sore thumb in an urban center and the burbs. I buy all my clothes and gear in Earth tones to include cold and hot weather. Daily wear for me in cold months is a pair of Duluth Fire Hose cargo pants and hiking boots, in hot months its Tru-Spec 24/7 cargo shorts and trail runners. I need cargos for my EDC kit, jeans are useless to me. Both the Duluth pants and the Tru-Spec shorts have hidden pockets inside the front pockets and or the side pockets that accommodate spare pistol mags/multi-tool, flashlight, etc.

This segues into vehicle preps since most of us have to drive to a job for a living it only makes sense to keep essentials in the vehicles. My wife works a white collar office career and has to dress accordingly. We have her a pair of hiking boots/socks along with her GHB in the trunk of her car in the event she has to go it on foot. Seeing images of office workers having to egress from Manhattan on 9/11 in heels and loafers through the debris and chaos really drove this point home for me. At the time I worked an office gig myself but wore Dr. Martin boots with my khakis so it was a non-issue for me then. Now that I work in LE I NEVER wear my uniform any place other than work. Should things go pear shaped it is the first thing I would ditch as it is a target indicator. I would then don my version of urban camouflage (cargos/t-shirt/softshell and a ball cap) for the trek home.

Exactly. This and Ironman8's post are exactly how I see it.

[Voodoo_Man]

Some guys hit it on the head, totally situation dependent.

Overt = looking for trouble and dressed the part.
Covert = looking to gray man it through the situation until you can get to where you are going

Things to consider which have already been covered:

SHTF and you aren't home = "get home bag" (rifle/arpistol/armor/food/etc), most of this stuff you can keep in a box in your trunk or in a locker somewhere.
SHTF and you are home = overt since you are home already and don't need to be unarmored (unless your house is fortified)
SHTF and you are no where near home = you gata figure this out on your own.