Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

[docsherm]

I see everyone so far thinks that Overt is "looking for trouble". I can see your point using today as a point of reference. If you are alone it is almost a non factor. For a group I would have to argue that there is a time and place for it. Living as the Gray Man does have its advantages but there are also some drawbacks. Everything is situational.

I have been in some very dicey places all over the world and I can tell you that sometimes it is much safer to be Overt. I must say that just being Overt is not what I am talking abut. Some D bag can kit up at the local gun show and be Overt all day but his S!@# is not together. Being Overt and having your S!@# VERY TIGHT can be a force protection measure. This was true in a place in Afghanistan for me. The Taliban would attack Big Army all day all buttoned up in their MATVs and MRAPs in huge convoys. We would roll out with a few people in two open top GMVs and they would even tell their people NOT to attack us. Why? Because when they didn't want to get wiped out. I would also roll out in a Toyota Hi-Lux and have to deal with being stopped at Taliban check points that would not have been their is I were Overt.

That same can be said for some time I spent in East Africa. We mount Crew-served weapons on our trucks and put on PCs and the warlords do not think that we are aid workers that they want to rob.

In a true SHTF situation conventional thinking is out the window. You need to think a bit more primal. More people would not think twice about going up to Gilbert Gottfried and punching him, yet the same person would most likely really think about doing the same to Arnold Schwarzenegger.........

Again just food for thought.

[markm]

I agree. Overt does have its place. I had to walk a few miles in down town Phoenix among the scum of the earth the other day to get some business handled. If I had to make that trek in a crisis scenario... Some overt gear would likely make the animals think twice.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The Overt option has it's place. Presenting one's self has a hard target has it's advantages. Predators look for soft targets / easy prey. If you have an alarm, a dog(s), flood lights, etc. a burglar / home invasion crew will move on down the block to a home that doesn't present such obstacles.

IMHO, Overt is a go after the ROL goes out the window and you have multiple people in your group that are squared away as you can effectively engage threats. The greatest offense is a good defense and all that.

[BuzzinSATX]

Good discussion. Guess I see it as, if things go very wrong, it's like being a fish in the ocean...some survive with camo (blending in) and stealth, some survive in schools, and some survive by being the biggest/baddest MF fish in the water.

[Ironman8]

I'll add that even though myself (and others) can envision being covert in 90+% of situations, I personally think having the gear and ability to go overt when the situation calls for it, is still important. In other words, I won't be getting rid of my PC and battle belt anytime soon.

[soulezoo]

A lot of what has been presented was my original thought that I didn't express well enough.

As an addendum to my original post, getting home and being covert and trying to avoid is my first priority. The easiest confrontation to survive is the one you don't have. My EDC bag has 5.11 pants in coyote and a Randall folder. Long sleeve forest green shirt. Appropriate footware and hat. Other outerware depends on the season and changes. The sig will be concealed. No body armor. Small trauma kit. Water and cliff bars in the bag... again, just enough to get home and remain light if I have to hoof it.

At home, bugging in, again covert, overt depends entirely on the situation. I'm only going overt if there is that level of civil unrest and the situation demands. Remember, the best kit in the world does no good if locked up when you need it. When the threat appears, that means it is usually too late to run get your stuff. On the other hand running around in battle rattle when it's a hurricane does tend to mark one as not so level headed. Each will have to make his/her own determination as to need and live with the consequences good or bad.

If bugging out, well everything is in hands reach if not worn. (Hard to drive with a bat belt!) In the end, for me, I will rely mostly on stealth, or being gray as said before. My goal is to not have that confrontation or interaction but yet be fully prepared if unavoidable. We can't necessarily pick our time or place according to our schedule. It is usually at the worst time and place.

[soulezoo]

Also in terms of load out, I mentioned the 5 30 round mags earlier. I also have a ten speed 6 mag bandoleer I can throw on if needed... and my 24hr Reece bag has 6 mags in it as well as water purification, more food, emergency bivy and ect. So, while 5 mags (3 on belt or PC) two on rifle is my "basic" load, it can be expandable in a heart beat. So I can go from 5 mags, to 11 mags to 17 mags very quickly. Although that is a lot of weight... what I am trying to avoid. Again, circumstances dictate. Although 500 rounds of ammo can put up a pretty good alamo.

[TacticalSledgehammer]

*My job requires me to be away from home 2-3 times per week usually staying in a hotel 200 miles away from home on nights that I'm away. *I'm always paired up with another person at work and usually there will be a few guys in the hotel that live in the same general area that I do. I'd imagine no larger than a group of 8 men. So in a SHTF situation, I see an average guy like me pairing up with a group of guys and making our way home with whatever we find available.
*We all normally pack things to stay over night and carry minimal tools with us at all times. So typically we'll have some general use items like:food, hygiene supplies, first aid kits, etc.
*We're not supposed to have weapons at work, so guys would have to carry what they keep in their junk cars they park at the hotel (assuming theft hasn't occurred yet) I'm sure most would have pistols and maybe a few with rifles. Personally I look to get an old clunker to park at the hotel and store a cheap surplus rifle (mosin, sks, etc) or a pump shotgun inside along with a pistol, and finding a way to lock them up.
*I plan on carrying 200 pistol rounds and 300 rifle or shotgun rounds.
*I would plan on trying to be as covert as possible. Even though I'd have a group of men (I'd probably consider calling them friends) I don't think we'd be very well armed compared to some others we'd encounter. I think we'd give more of the image of walking supply stores more than a threat, due to what we'd have to carry to survive if we were forced to walk home (cars not running, roads impassable, etc). Having said that, we'd be walking at night and away from roads as much as possible.

So far this is the strategy I have. It honestly seems kinda poor in my own opinion, I just have no way to greatly improve on it financially at the moment. One thing that helps is that guys are starting to talk about it with each other at work so maybe it will get more guys with better ideas involved.

[sevenhelmet]

Lots of great points in this thread. Clearly having covert AND overt options available is very important. In addition, I think having people you can trust and band together with is crucial in a crisis. Neighbors, co-workers (as in the post above), whoever. If something bad happens, having a trusted community, even a small one, is better than being a lone wolf.

[docsherm]

So far this is the strategy I have. It honestly seems kinda poor in my own opinion, I just have no way to greatly improve on it financially at the moment. One thing that helps is that guys are starting to talk about it with each other at work so maybe it will get more guys with better ideas involved.

It doesn't sound too bad. Actually as a framework for a "get home plan" it is very good. With a little bit of planning and preparation you could have a good system. In your situation there would be safety in numbers.

Do you have a dedicated bag that is prepacked to take with you? If not that is something to look at. 200 mile is a long way but it is completely doable. If you can get at least a few of the others to prepare then you probably have a start.

As long arms go, I would lean towards a pump 12 guage for several reasons. Different types of ammo for different jobs, you can find the ammo anywhere, and you can probably get a used Remington 870 at a pawn shop very cheap. Going that direction you can upgrade an 870 over time with new parts to set it up the way you want it, stock, extended mag, and so on.