Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

[Koshinn]

Overt is only detrimental when there is functioning law enforcement.

Looking like you're "looking for a fight" is good. You're a hardened target. You're prepared. You have fangs and claws and know how to use them.

Criminals and predators share many things in common, but the biggest is that they're opportunists. They always go for the easy prey, the young or old or sick. Don't be a soft target.



Yes, blanket statements always have exceptions. If I were travelling in a large defenseless group for which I could not care less about, I would try not to stick out as one competent individual won't factor heavily into a huge target like that, because I'd value my own survival over theirs. But if it was a large group of friends and family, I would be as combat effective as possible. I might be the first target, but with armor I might survive. It'd be worth it. I'm not a hero sheepdog, I'm not about to take care of every group of people who's only virtue is that they're not criminals.

[sevenhelmet]

Generally, I agree with not being a soft target. But overt weapons and gear makes it harder to de-escalate or minimize exposure to a threat since you stand out. And there is always the chance that a threat is bigger or has better numbers than you do. It's definitely situation dependent, which makes discussions like this important. The line will be different for everyone based on situation and their level of training. Being covert doesn't necessarily mean being a soft target. There is a lot to be said for concealed defenses and maintaining SA.

[Koshinn]

Generally, I agree with not being a soft target. But overt weapons and gear makes it harder to de-escalate or minimize exposure to a threat since you stand out. And there is always the chance that a threat is bigger or has better numbers than you do. It's definitely situation dependent, which makes discussions like this important. The line will be different for everyone based on situation and their level of training. Being covert doesn't necessarily mean being a soft target. There is a lot to be said for concealed defenses and maintaining SA.

De-scalate? Why is it ever an advantage, when the rule of law is gone, to have less influence over others?

There's also a difference between actually being a soft target, which no one here is advocating, and appearing to be a soft target.

Bad guys choose targets based on probability of success with minimal losses. Seeing someone with armor and a rifle is a HUGE deterrent.

It's better to avoid a fight than to get in one and being overt does that.

[TacticalSledgehammer]

I think it all depends on how bad you want a guy's gear. I could see someone you deem as a soft target ambushing an overt guy to score his gear and eliminate a threat. On the other hand I see an overt guy holding a big advantage if he was in a group of other overt guys.

[Voodoo_Man]

I think it all depends on how bad you want a guy's gear. I could see someone you deem as a soft target ambushing an overt guy to score his gear and eliminate a threat. On the other hand I see an overt guy holding a big advantage if he was in a group of other overt guys.

...anyone is a soft target to someone...

[Hedgelj]

I currently work approx 45 miles from my home. I can get home via major interstates or 2 lane state routes.

I have a get home bag packed and in my car. It contains a hydration bladder, some food (mre and snacks), water purification tablets, basic first aid supplies, fire starting tools, a light weight sleeping bag, 550 cord a tarp and Mylar blanket. I have spare magazines and 100 rounds of ammo for my edc in the car. It's carried in a hiking style light day pack/assault pack.

I normally wear some sort of hiking shoe and durable pants to work. I carry winter boots and extra layers in the car in the winter.

My plan is to get home to help my wife and our children.

I have talked to some of the people who were evac'd from the wild fires out west and open carried firearms were a no go but concealed made it out okay. Made me re think the Grey man and that is what I aim to be on my way home.

Though the areas I would be traveling through on my way home are pretty rural I have to get out of a medium sized city first.

I have contemplated having an AR in my vehicle but the logistics of securing it is my main deterrent at the moment.

Once I get home depending on the circumstance it will be a hardened grey man. At that point I can pull as much of an Alamo as I have to to keep my family safe.

[Slab]

Without a place to bail out too, will be going turtle… Group is small (4) with like “systems”… No particular “scenario”, just everything from local bad weather to worst case event. Overt vs covert is a mixed bag… In “lighter” events, covert will rule the day but if the poo was flung, will be overt. We are very rural, and a long way by road from any population center, so definitely not facing the challenges of others…

For us the tricky part is when we take a road trip, once we punch over the pass, packs and rifle bags are in the truck… They contain all of the usual stuff you would need to travel at night with overt and covert gear.

Covert-
G-19s in RCS/300 phantom holsters
RCS rifle mag “pouches”
Eagle Industries Universal chest rig (worn under a coat)

Overt-
LBT Sentinel with level IV plates
x4 double rifle mag pouches
x2 G17 mags
comms
IFAK
Benchmade Adama
Wife unit runs a black hawk chest rig, not sure what type

Packs-
Mystery Ranch Overload
Eberlestock (S1?) (don’t quote me on the S1… It’s the wife unit’s…)

Ammo-

Between the two of us, we travel with 30 rifle mags and approximately 8 pistol… Mainly for strong pointing the in-laws place as that is where we are normally heading… Might need that much ammo for the mom in law, in case she cooks off as she is bat shit crazy, but that’s another story… We keep a tote at their house with additional “stuff” should we need to “extend our stay”…

We try to avoid road trips in the Jan-Feb as temps can be nippy and result in significant gear additions…

[sevenhelmet]

De-scalate? Why is it ever an advantage, when the rule of law is gone, to have less influence over others?

I was thinking of potential situations where rule of law might still be the norm and you have an opportunity to break contact with no shots being fired. That said, it's not really SHTF then, is it? So I see your point...

[afff_667]

...anyone is a soft target to someone...

or to a group. This is well worth remembering.

I keep a well stocked GHB in my truck and a cache of supplies at work to get me the 25 miles back home on work days. I've planned a couple of routes; one that's the fastest when there are no to few concerns about being seen or otherwise identified. The other route (and a couple of variations) is designed to avoid interference or other interactions with others if needed. Maps have proven envaluable to me in route planning to avoid choke points as much as possible along the way. Although I've explored the routes several times, I'd like to one day actually walk them.

I feel like I've pretty much covered what I need to get home with the exception of firearms. I work in local government, and carrying at work is a no go for several reasons. Parking at work is not secured well enough for me to feel comfortable leaving a pistol locked up in my truck, either. I've thought about risking it with a secure "vault" cabled to a seat mount and out of sight, but I hate the idea of having my pistol stolen and ending up on the street with some bitch-ass, punk thief. It has occurred to me that not having a pistol might make me more careful in the event I have to get home covertly, but a G19 and a few extra magazines would sure make me feel better.

Thanks to Docsherm for starting this thread and all of the excellent info being provided.

[soulezoo]

Good thread so far. Thanks to all for keeping it useful.

It is a nice crossection of perspectives.