Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

[docsherm]

I feel like I've pretty much covered what I need to get home with the exception of firearms. I work in local government, and carrying at work is a no go for several reasons. Parking at work is not secured well enough for me to feel comfortable leaving a pistol locked up in my truck, either. I've thought about risking it with a secure "vault" cabled to a seat mount and out of sight, but I hate the idea of having my pistol stolen and ending up on the street with some bitch-ass, punk thief. It has occurred to me that not having a pistol might make me more careful in the event I have to get home covertly, but a G19 and a few extra magazines would sure make me feel better.

Thanks to Docsherm for starting this thread and all of the excellent info being provided.

I have to agree that a Glock and a few mags will go a long way. 25 miles can take some time if you have to move slow and watch out for bad things.

Have you looked at getting an Pacsafe?

http://www.pacsafe.com/travelsafe-5l-portable-safe.html

Lock it up under your seat or something. People would have to really want to get it if you did that.


Thanks. I am just glad everyone is contributing. There is some good info here.

[ST911]

Disregard...Pre-Coffee Posting

[Koshinn]

I was thinking of potential situations where rule of law might still be the norm and you have an opportunity to break contact with no shots being fired. That said, it's not really SHTF then, is it? So I see your point...

When I was advocating for overt, I was only doing so with the assumption that the rule of law was no longer in effect. It's in my first post in the thread

[docsherm]

Good points made by all. Here is a question I pose to the group.

Several have brought up if ROL is present or not. Is it different if it is localized or wide spread? As an example localized such as LA during the riots or wide spread such as the Mogadishu. In theory there is also precived short term and long term.

In LA during the riots technically there was still ROL but the supply of LEO did not even meet the demand at the time. So is ROL there or is it gone?

[sevenhelmet]

It's a grey area with respect to ROL- it's temporarily gone, but it will come back eventually (maybe). Minor offenses will probably not be followed up, but something major, like grand theft or murder would be, meaning self-defense killings might have to be justified when the dust settles. I would say in an LA riot / Fergusen / Katrina type scenario when people are rioting, looting, and otherwise acting like idiots, overt gear is a better choice if you are forced or choose to remain there for any reason. Whether one expects local ROL to be restored or not would definitely drive a great deal of decisions, but the "hard target" mentality seems to be the prudent choice here, much like the story about the guys who grabbed rifles and guarded the gas station in Fergusen, saving the owner from having his business destroyed.

This seems to fit Doc Sherm's "semi-permissive" environment the best, since you're not yet on a 2-way shooting range, but you could be forced into one at any time.

[docsherm]

It's a grey area with respect to ROL- it's temporarily gone, but it will come back eventually (maybe). Minor offenses will probably not be followed up, but something major, like grand theft or murder would be, meaning self-defense killings might have to be justified when the dust settles. I would say in an LA riot / Fergusen / Katrina type scenario when people are rioting, looting, and otherwise acting like idiots, overt gear is a better choice if you are forced or choose to remain there for any reason. Whether one expects local ROL to be restored or not would definitely drive a great deal of decisions, but the "hard target" mentality seems to be the prudent choice here, much like the story about the guys who grabbed rifles and guarded the gas station in Fergusen, saving the owner from having his business destroyed.

This seems to fit Doc Sherm's "semi-permissive" environment the best, since you're not yet on a 2-way shooting range, but you could be forced into one at any time.

I completely agree with your post, good assessment.

Are you saying this applies for both a static position and while on the move to a different location?

[markm]

While on the move ROL could vary greatly block to block.

[TehLlama]

Whether one expects local ROL to be restored or not would definitely drive a great deal of decisions, but the "hard target" mentality seems to be the prudent choice here, much like the story about the guys who grabbed rifles and guarded the gas station in Fergusen, saving the owner from having his business destroyed.

Yeah, I pretty much see 'the' application for overt equipment being a visibly hard target for the purpose of convincing idiocy to go elsewhere; for anything else that is short-term SHTF with expected resumption in ROL (or even geographically situation ROL from NG/LE controlled areas and some less controlled areas) covert with access to a jock-up kit is going to be preferable. For something where LEO's and redeployed federal/state assets are present but inadequate, I figure it's safe enough to explain having armor and even long guns, but being in overt 100% of the time increases the chance of some nervous person shooting first and asking questions later. Since the implication is that I won't necessarily be able to hole up and hold out, MarkM's point that ROL is going to vary block to block is absolutely applicable, so it would be as covert as necessary for the area where I want to minimize potentially misunderstanding based interactions, but bringing along as much punch as I can as conveniently as possible for when just being inconspicuous isn't enough.

[docsherm]

While on the move ROL could vary greatly block to block.

Good point.....trench coat?

That makes it very difficult to access the situation and adapt to it if it is changing every 100 meters of so. Can't exactly just ditch your long gun and PC every time you see a LEO.


After some more thought my "trench coat" idea may not be too far off. With low viz armor and a low viz chest rig one could simply change your level easily. Wear the gear Overtly and then have a jacket to put on if need be to go a little more Covert. I would say the same could be done with a long gun in a bag but that would be much more time consuming. Unless you are using a very short SBR (7- 8" barrel and short stock) then it may be possible.

[BG1960]

I carry a light MARPAT rain poncho in my get home bag for just such a circumstance. It won't fit in in an urban setting, but I would be on train tracks and bayous if I had to walk home.