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Thread: How much POI shift due to bayonet?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by strambo View Post
    Sure it is, to the throat...dead is dead.
    Good luck with that one


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Are you a Marine or in the army?
    Soldier. My work rifle doesn't have provisions to mount a bayonet.

    And Ive often sacrificed carrying a sidearm for an extra primary magazine. I feel the same way when it comes to a bayonet.

    Rick

  3. #23
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    You cannot see a connection between we don't take our bayonets out of the armory, so we don't see their use compare to the Marines who issue them and still stick people with them?

    Beyond their usage in combat, I found when I ordered my Marines to fix bayonets it was sure as hell was an effective way to keep the thieving Iraqis away from the gear.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0N View Post
    You cannot see a connection between we don't take our bayonets out of the armory, so we don't see their use compare to the Marines who issue them and still stick people with them?
    Wouldn't you be better off just shooting them instead of stabbing? Plus for the weight of 1 bayonet you get 28-30 rounds (SOP dependent). Ive found that speaking their language and relating to them works pretty well as compared to waving knives at them.

    Rick

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooneGA View Post
    Wouldn't you be better off just shooting them instead of stabbing? Plus for the weight of 1 bayonet you get 28-30 rounds (SOP dependent). Ive found that speaking their language and relating to them works pretty well as compared to waving knives at them.

    Rick
    For the most part you never want to get in bayonet distance anyway because weapon retention becomes an issue. But it does scare the living shit out of people if you come running at them yelling with fixed bayonets. In short its a psychological thing.

  6. #26
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    Shooting is the preferred method; however there are times when shooting is not an option or in the cases I cited above when bayonetting has been used in the GWOT.

    Do you think talking to the locals and relating to them stops from attempting to steal your stuff? I did not notice that in my year long MiTT tour and also believe it is a fundamental flaw in our current war effort the belief that most of the people we fight understand anything but violence or the threat of violence.

    Even with the 84lb standard infantry combat load, the less than 1 lbs is really a psychological thing it won't stop someone from carrying an extra 30 round magazine.

  7. #27
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    "Marines know how to use their bayonets. Army bayonets may as well be paper-weights."

    -Navy Times; November 1994

  8. #28
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    I don't buy into the psychological factor in any of it. People compare muzzle thumps to a bayonetting? Two completely different things (lethal/less lethal). Do I need to hang a knife off of the front of my rifle (that prevents the services from installing longer, free floating rails on GPF rifles) to inspire my "warrior spirit"? No, I do not.

    I do not see any real benefits to its continued use outside of the soft "psychological" benefits mentioned above. Soldiers and Marines shoot millions of rounds for every time someone mounts bayonet. Would not a rifle that didnt have provisions for it, but had a longer free floated rail better serve them in the VAST majority of combat situations?

    In case you havent figured out I'm not one for nostalgia.

    Rick

  9. #29
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    How much POI shift due to bayonet?

    Quote Originally Posted by BooneGA View Post
    I don't buy into the psychological factor in any of it. People compare muzzle thumps to a bayonetting? Two completely different things (lethal/less lethal). Do I need to hang a knife off of the front of my rifle (that prevents the services from installing longer, free floating rails on GPF rifles) to inspire my "warrior spirit"? No, I do not.

    I do not see any real benefits to its continued use outside of the soft "psychological" benefits mentioned above. Soldiers and Marines shoot millions of rounds for every time someone mounts bayonet. Would not a rifle that didnt have provisions for it, but had a longer free floated rail better serve them in the VAST majority of combat situations?

    In case you havent figured out I'm not one for nostalgia.

    Rick
    But they have been used and used effectively even in the current war. If we want to just go by the number of casualties produced, why not just get rid of pistols they produce very few casualties or that matter rifles because they also produce a very small percent of wounds compared to crew served or aerial delivered ordnance. No we keep them for the same reasons we keep bayonets there is a psychological connection to the weapon.

    Shooting people should still be the preferred method of dealing with enemy but in numerous desperate times US forces have fallen back to using bayonets because the still do work

    The people in question already have a 12" handguard on their weapon unfortunately because of the added weight on the front end of the weapon many of them move all the accessories back towards the rear of rail so to reduce the fatigue of carrying the nose heavy weapon for extended periods

    That one of the aspects of the extended fighting from FOB, vehicles and conduct nothing more than a series of raids that have become accustomed to
    There is little experience anymore with prolonged foot mobile operations.


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    Last edited by R0N; 02-18-15 at 11:01.

  10. #30
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    You are planning for a single contingency that rarely occurs. Compromises need to be made but you must deal with the most likely ones first. A free floated rail would benefit almost every engagement as opposed to dealing with singular instances where bayonets were used.

    If ones moves to a more long duration dismounted mission weight becomes even more of a concern. Is an A2 length gun the answer for that mission? I doubt it, and if it is those accessories quickly become useless as the duration continues on. Moving accessories such as IR lasers back to the rear of the rail reduces their accuracy as the ideal location is as far forward as possible. Again, you are forced to compromise. At some point you must make decisions as to what you actually NEED to carry and the negatives that go along with ensuring that a rifle is bayonet compatible outweigh its benefits early on in that decision making process.

    Somehow SOF has been able to go to rifles that don't have bayonet mounts for almost all mission sets. You must plan for the fight you are most likely going to encounter. If forced to plan for every contingency you are weighed down to the point where your force has lost the ability to fire and maneuver (REF - OEF/OIF in almost all instances).

    Rick

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