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Thread: USMC to upgrade to "Deadlier" rifles

  1. #91
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    The MK-48s didn't get you that light, but it put you in the M60E4 range. My guys didn't see a lot of SAF,so I can't comment on their reliability/down range effectiveness. We borrowed the design from SOCOM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    I thought the IAR was meant to augment the 249, not replace it as many people seem to assume.
    The IAR concept has pretty much failed in every iteration its been tried post BAR, which considering the service rifle at the time is no surprise why it was successful. The RPK, SA-80 LSW variant and MG36, AUG Hbar ect. were all dead end developments that were either phased out replaced by belt-feds. If you ask me the M27 IAR program was just a backdoor way for the USMC to adopt the HK416 across the fleet. Quoting Amos, " “We are fielding that now on a test basis in Afghanistan with five battalions. My sense is this weapon could take the place of our squad automatic weapon. And it could also take the place, possibly, of our service weapon: So yet to be seen.” Subtly isnt the Marine's strong suit.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 02-24-15 at 07:48.

  3. #93
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    Whether the M27 is a failure or not at this point is still up in the air. However there was no subterfuge in fielding M27 it was not a backdoor means of getting a new services rifle. The gunner community was never a fan of the SAW seeing it as a LMG and not what the Marine Corps was originally wanting and have been attempting to go back to an IAR since the late 90s. Through numerous conversations with the gunner who wrote the original Gazette he specifically denied any idea of using it as a vehicle for a service rifle replacement, He is GS working for the Marines and not a gun company

    What brought about the discussion of it as a replacement for the M16 FOW was during its initial fielding how accurate it was compared to the M16F OW

    The RPK is still in Russian service and its adoption actually points to belt feed LMGs of the same caliber as the service weapon being replaced by an IAR and when they need belt feed they go with a larger caliber weapon

    Other nations have replaced their IARs but all that has bought them is the ability to make more noise; that is essentially the argument against the SAW it does produce a larger volume of fire and effect is mostly noise at the expense of maneuverability


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    Last edited by R0N; 02-24-15 at 08:44.

  4. #94
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    I'm no expert on USMC machine gun doctrine, but Isn't there a diffenerence between an automatic rifle and a light machine gun? Proper utiization and expectation management might be important.

  5. #95
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    MK 48 is "light"? That is a surprise. It is just tad lighter than UKM 2000 (UKM has like 1" more of barrel or so) and our guys comply that heavy barrel makes it overly heavy compared to PKM.

    Shows how "light" and "heavy" is very subjective.

    Anyway, in Poland we never really adopted "automatic rifle". There were small number of RPK (and RPK-74 / RPKS-77) bought for paratroopers or special forces (to use instead of more cumbersome PK/PKM), but that is it. Bigger RPK mags were however used with AK and AKM to allow use of assault rifle as automatic rifle. Funny how now assault rifle (HK416) also become automatic rifle (M27).

    BTT I've read original article and most of this changes sounds to me like relatively easy way to get noticeable results. I understand that there is no plan to use "match barrels" but just use free floating handguard to allow barrel to free float like "barrel on match rifles".
    Montrala

    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Kahles, Hornady and Typhoon Defence brands in Poland, so I can be biased

    http://montrala.blogspot.com

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0N View Post
    1/3 and 1/9 were the first BNs to get them in Dec 2010 (1/3 was the first and their CO happened to have been the infantry advocate at PP&O prior to taking command), 2/4 got them Jan of 11 and 1/25 in Apr of 11.
    We got them late 2010 early 2011 and deployed with them the second half of 2011. The guys who had them were told their loadout was to be 22 mags. They had drop leg holsters for mags. Ultimately they ended up just carrying 8. It was absurd. Just give us select fire M4s and be done with it.

    We also had no M249s. I like the role of the saw, but I think we should focus on something in 7.62 instead. Furthermore Id like to see a couple SDMs per squad, we had none, just STA for overwatch. When engagement distances are 300+ yards routinely they need Marines ALWAYS present who know how to use glass, and Id probably go as far as saying with an m110.

    I get that the type of conflict will change the needs, but that was my takeaway. As I said, we saw little SAF contact, I personally was never shot at just rolled up as QRF on an ambush... MATVs with heavy guns dont draw a lot of fire in open area, but they do set off IEDs.

    Mike

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  7. #97
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    Compared with a M-240, yes. But your point about the subjectiveness is well taken. That UKM's intresting, thanks for shareing that. IThe PK/PKM is an intresting weapon, everyone I know who has used one, liked it.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd228 View Post
    I'm no expert on USMC machine gun doctrine, but Isn't there a diffenerence between an automatic rifle and a light machine gun? Proper utiization and expectation management might be important.
    Marine Corps definition :
    Light Machinegun (LMG). The light machinegun (LMG) classification generally includes .22 to .250 caliber (5.45mm to 6mm) automatic weapons. A LMG typically weighs between 15 and 30 pounds, complete. A crew of one or two individuals normally mans an LMG, depending on the accessories being used. Neither a tripod nor a spare barrel is normally used with an LMG when a single individual mans it. Bullet weights for LMGs normally range from 45 to 72 grains. They are optimally employed against exposed and lightly protected personnel at ranges less than 1,000 meters. In this category, the Marine Corps employs the M249; though its nature as a light machinegun is not as conducive to the attack as a true automatic rifle

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd228 View Post
    That UKM's intresting, thanks for shareing that.
    UKM 2000 was developed based on PKM when Poland joined NATO and decided to go with calibre switch. Heavier barrel was used to improve accuracy potential when used with opto-electronic aiming devices and facilitate higher volume of fire on one barrel. It is not straight PKM -> 7.62 NATO conversion. It was tried before UKM 2000 and failed (called PKM NATO).
    Montrala

    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Kahles, Hornady and Typhoon Defence brands in Poland, so I can be biased

    http://montrala.blogspot.com

  10. #100
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    If ya'll are planning full M4's why upgrade the M16?
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

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