This is just painful to look at: Beretta APX

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

As far as looks, people don't realize how insanely Ugly Sigs and Glocks were when they hit the market. Now people think they look good (not me, basically Lugers, 1911s and BHPs are how guns are supposed to look).

I think everybody is just jerking off putting out new guns until (1) they attack Glock directly in advertising for putting out a product that is far inferior to their reputation (basically like Apple did Microsoft) or (2) deliver an absolute game-changer (hard). Until then, Glock perfection.

[Jpoe88]

All plastic guns look the same for the most part and just about have the same accessories available now. If it's not over priced and is accurate and reliable then what's the deal?

[plouffedaddy]

Nailed it Greg.

[brickboy240]

I totally agree.

When the new Beretta or whatever polymer striker gun that comes out RUNS like a Glock....THEN they really have something. Until then...BFD.

The XD is a swing and a miss, ditto for the M&P but it came closer than the XD. The Walther PPQ finally gave us a decent trigger but then they changed the mag release and the mags don't interchange and that was just a goofy decision. Then along came the HK VP-9 and the SIG 320 and these two are probably the closest competition Glock has truly seen in this market. I still want a VP-9....maybe someday.

COULD the new Beretta compete? Maybe but trigger time and some testing will tell all.

Who cares what it LOOKS like? If it runs 100% and puts bullets where you want them then it is beautiful to me! LOL

[ralph]

I totally agree.

When the new Beretta or whatever polymer striker gun that comes out RUNS like a Glock....THEN they really have something. Until then...BFD.

The XD is a swing and a miss, ditto for the M&P but it came closer than the XD. The Walther PPQ finally gave us a decent trigger but then they changed the mag release and the mags don't interchange and that was just a goofy decision. Then along came the HK VP-9 and the SIG 320 and these two are probably the closest competition Glock has truly seen in this market. I still want a VP-9....maybe someday.

COULD the new Beretta compete? Maybe but trigger time and some testing will tell all.

Who cares what it LOOKS like? If it runs 100% and puts bullets where you want them then it is beautiful to me! LOL

While I pretty much agree with you, I'll expand just a bit. The first pistol that comes out that's the same size as a G19, same capacity, is as, or more reliable, more accurate than the Glock without any issues (BTF,etc) And get the aftermarket quickly on board, with holsters sights, etc, will be the one to push Glock aside.. VP9c? maybe, but HK has to make one first, and at this point, I'm not sure HK will get one out before they go bankrupt. So, for the foreseeable future, the G19 will probably be king of CCW..

[brickboy240]

Yep...when HK bring out the "SK" version of the VP-9 and it runs like the VP-9 and is priced like the VP-9...THAT will be the game changer. The true competition for the Glock 19.

As the owner of a 3rd gen G19..yes...there is nothing that is that size, that capacity and has this much going for it on the polymer market. The compact SIG P320 comes the closest but that is it.

It does seem like the BTF issues with 9mm Glocks is slowly going away. You don't hear tons about it anymore. Maybe Glock quietly fixed this issue.

[ralph]

Yep...when HK bring out the "SK" version of the VP-9 and it runs like the VP-9 and is priced like the VP-9...THAT will be the game changer. The true competition for the Glock 19.

As the owner of a 3rd gen G19..yes...there is nothing that is that size, that capacity and has this much going for it on the polymer market. The compact SIG P320 comes the closest but that is it.

It does seem like the BTF issues with 9mm Glocks is slowly going away. You don't hear tons about it anymore. Maybe Glock quietly fixed this issue.

What I don't get is why a SK? I'd rather have a P-2000 sized pistol that uses P-2000 mags. That's closer to a G19 size wise, and would make more sense for PD's and SO's wanting a compact to go along with the full sized guns...

[attrapereves]

The Caracal pistols could have been a decent Glock alternative, but the recalls doomed them. Also, a lot of people aren't a fan of where they are made.

[mig1nc]

The Caracal pistols could have been a decent Glock alternative, but the recalls doomed them. Also, a lot of people aren't a fan of where they are made.

This. The Caracal C had the G19 beat on size in every dimension and trigger out of the box. But they screwed up the product rollout, and the goofy rear sight built into the end plate. I hate that sight. The whole country of origin thing was an issue as well.

I would have liked to have seen a QS version. People seem to really like them.

[brickboy240]

Yeah...I have a friend that has both Caracal 9mms and they shoot well but the funky rear sight was just odd.

I swear...every one of these gun makers does at least ONE THING goofy that screws up a pistol's design or roll out. Why is this?

HK came close...VERY close but the VP-9 is about the size of a G17. That might be the only real mark against it. It should have had dimensions closer to the G19 and everyone here would be shooting one by now.

Someday..sometime...someone WILL make the Glock 19 killer but that day is still a long ways off if you ask me.