This is just painful to look at: Beretta APX

**MSparks909** · 03-10-17, 19:44

Originally Posted by williejc

Before Glocks I had never heard the term audible reset. Of course, I knew reset's definition and was aware that 1911's have a very rapid and short reset and that Browning HP's were quite long. Smith M&Ps' reset has been criticized for not being audible and distinct when compared with Glock resets.

My question: Is having a distinct and audible reset necessary in a striker fire pistol? I wonder about reasons for placing so much emphasis on this trait. I also wonder why all the other gun makers don't slavishly copy the Glock trigger. I assume that Glock's trigger patents have expired.

How many times have you heard, been told, or seen someone instruct a new shooter, especially when shooting a Glock, to "Align the sights, press the trigger to the rear and then SLOWLY reset the trigger until you feel a click, and then fire again." That's where the term "riding the reset" came from, and why so many people feel that an audible and tactile reset is necessary in order for them to shoot properly. I'm going against the grain here, but pinning the trigger and riding the reset is a byproduct of Glock design/marketing and is a detrimental method to shooting ANY gun at speed. Pinning the trigger is acceptable in a *few* specific situations, but it is not the blanket method we should teach new shooters with or continue to tout the benefits of.

**The Dumb Gun Collector** · 03-10-17, 20:35

My favorite term for it "bump humper."

**26 Inf** · 03-10-17, 22:52

Originally Posted by MSparks909

How many times have you heard, been told, or seen someone instruct a new shooter, especially when shooting a Glock, to "Align the sights, press the trigger to the rear and then SLOWLY reset the trigger until you feel a click, and then fire again." That's where the term "riding the reset" came from, and why so many people feel that an audible and tactile reset is necessary in order for them to shoot properly. I'm going against the grain here, but pinning the trigger and riding the reset is a byproduct of Glock design/marketing and is a detrimental method to shooting ANY gun at speed. Pinning the trigger is acceptable in a *few* specific situations, but it is not the blanket method we should teach new shooters with or continue to tout the benefits of.

FWIW - we used to talk about reset in the DA revolver days - letting the trigger recover enough to pick up the DA sear on the S&W revolver. Then a couple years later we were talking about reset when we were teaching double to single transition on auto pistols.

I honestly don't know what the 'correct' way to instruct a new shooter in trigger manipulation.

If you are going to teach a press it has to start somewhere. One of the biggest problems I see with new shooters of striker fired pistols, Glocks in particular (since it is what most of my students have used) is first shot PIP big time because of the long take up/slack of the first shot comparative to shots from reset. Of course, those are shooters trained by the 'group method' and generally with less than 2,000 rounds experience.

If I understood him correctly, Bill Rogers believes you should teach speed/combat before precision. He advocated 'press, flip, press' with no reset in the course I attended. I absolutely sucked two days trying my damnedest to unlearn my trigger reset before I decided it wasn't going to happen.

I'm an instructor, I thought a lot about that experience. When I began shooting with my daughters, I intentionally tried to get by without telling them how to pull the trigger. The thing I emphasized was that the essence of marksmanship is sight alignment, eliminating movement of the weapon and consistent repetition. When we dry fired it was not pretty. I ended up teaching them press and rest.

To my way of thinking, two things happen in order build real speed with duty weapons vs. race guns - 1) the parameters of reset become ingrained in your brain to finger interface so that you no longer think about it; 2) you no longer care much about recoil. For the average person this requires a lot more rounds than the normal police officer shoots.

**montrala** · 03-13-17, 08:25

Originally Posted by Evel Baldgui

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all

And Glock is... just a VP70 with better trigger and 12 years later

BTT I handled APX at IWA. I think it is decent gun. Trigger is OK and I actually like those big charging serrations. Not that I'm going to dump my SFP9 (VP9) for it and if I would, I would go rather toward CZ P10, but still APX looks and feels like decent enough gun to bring Beretta good sales.

**brickboy240** · 03-13-17, 11:10

If it runs 100% is accurate and has zero problems, it might sell well.

People have drifted to the XD, M&P, PPQ, P320 and VP-9 but not in the large droves they were expecting.

Problem is that most shooters now have their Glocks modded to where they like them, have holsters and accessories and changing or adding another platform is expensive and risky. Especially with the teething issues we saw from the XD, M&P and P320.

Beretta is just 20-25 years too late to the party.

**.XL** · 03-13-17, 11:30

Originally Posted by brickboy240

Beretta is just 20-25 years too late to the party.

Me too, so I like it!

**Gary1911A1** · 03-13-17, 11:57

Originally Posted by brickboy240

If it runs 100% is accurate and has zero problems, it might sell well.

People have drifted to the XD, M&P, PPQ, P320 and VP-9 but not in the large droves they were expecting.

Problem is that most shooters now have their Glocks modded to where they like them, have holsters and accessories and changing or adding another platform is expensive and risky. Especially with the teething issues we saw from the XD, M&P and P320.

Beretta is just 20-25 years too late to the party.

That's pretty much it for me on why I keep my Glocks. I have so much experience, parts, and carry gear I just don't want to learn a new system and pay the money unless I'm going to to get a big advantage over the Glocks. I'm interested in the new CZ P10 since so many people I respect have endorse it, but I'll wait and try to shoot one first.