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Thread: Bolt gunner looking to get into ARs: Suggestions?

  1. #1
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    Bolt gunner looking to get into ARs: Suggestions?

    Howdy! I am a long time bolt-gunner looking to get into ARs to do some precision work (tactical matches) and have something other than my handguns & shotty for self-defense and the zombie apocalypse. Although I've shot a few over the years and know the basics, I am not versed enough with the platform to make any educated decisions on buying anything AR. Having said that, I do know who Larue, Noveske, Rainier, BCM, DD, LMT and the others are.

    I live in a state that passed legislation due to Newtown, Connecticut. Before it went into affect, I purchased 2 forged Mega lowers. They've been gathering dust since 2013 and I am ready to get them going... As mentioned, the main purpose of the rifle would be for tactical competitions. 600yds would be about the max distance I would shoot in the comps, but I have access to longer ranges and love to stretch the limits of anything I shoot. (I use my .223 bolt-gun out to 900yds using 77gr) Having said that I don't want a bench-gun, per say, and would like to be able to run-and-gun in the filthiest of environments and maybe consider 3-gun matches.

    I am pretty sure I am going to have the uppers built for me, but need to decide on a few things:
    • 16"-18" barrel?
    • 1:7 or 1:8 twist? (I will shoot 55gr crap when plinking, but will mainly shoot 69-77gr)
    • SS for the best accuracy?
    • Will any comp do? I won't suppress, but would love to keep the recoil down for follow up shots. Was thinking about the BCM Battle Comp?
    • Mid-length or rifle-length?
    • Geissele? I know... Dumb question, but don't know if there's another trigger I should look into.
    • BCGs?
    • Rails? Guessing this is just preference.
    • What else do I need to consider?


    I know better to ask which is best; Noveske, LMT, BCM, etc. But, I will ask: Do any of them provide better long-range or precision options? Maybe I am overthinking this. Maybe it's as simple as buying a BCM SPR upper or Rainier Ultramatch? So, if you have the time, I'd like to hear from y'all.

    Thanks,
    Little Yosh

  2. #2
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    Buy a BCM upper and complete bolt and sleep at night. If you have time to wait Palmetto PREMIUM assemblies and parts are great and are top quality. Stay simple ,buy quality. The problem with ARs is no one owns just one.
    Last edited by SteveS; 03-04-15 at 22:36.

  3. #3
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    I second the above...Get a BCM complete upper (id get a 1/7 twist, but that's just me) and be happy that you did. There is definitely no reason to buy anything other than a bcm bcg. Muzzle device depends on your application, but know there will be a trade off when it comes to flash/blast v. muzzle stability. Also, bcm doesn't make the battlecomp. Bcm's comp is called the gunfighter comp. In my experience, the bcm comp is less blasty and produces slightly less flash than most of the comps out there. However, although its definitely an improvement over the A2, its not going to keep the muzzle completely flat like a dedicated brake (and that's the common tradeoff I mentioned). Again, muzzle device depends on your application. Regarding barrel length, you're not really going to see any kind of measurable improvement in accuracy when going from 16-18 inches (all things being equal, of course). The main reason why I would think about increasing barrel length would be if I was looking for lethality at distance (length = velocity. velocity = lethality, generally speaking). There isn't much you cant do with a nice 16" barrel. If you go 16", definitely go with a mid length gas system. Basically, we're circling back to the initial point...just get a complete 16" midlength bcm upper and be done. Regarding rails...if you want a quad rail, id go with either a centurion C4 or DD lite III; my personal preference would be the DD lite III. bcm will be offering the dd lite III as an option on their uppers fairly soon. If you want to go keymod, bcm pretty much has the keymod rail market locked up.

  4. #4
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    JP Enterprises over any of the brands you just mentioned. Rifle length gas, adjustable gas block, low mass BCG, excellent FF tube, effective comp, all out of the box. They shoot fast and are very accurate. If you've got money to spend, JP is the way to go. They have a huge following among competitive shooters for a reason.

  5. #5
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    Another vote for JP. Doesn't seem like your building on a strict budget just to build. Definitely would go 18" barrel (Rainier Ultra match) I didn't see you mention optics unless your shooting irons out to 600 yards.

    I would go with a nice 1-6 illuminated

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    Howdy! I am a long time bolt-gunner looking to get into ARs to do some precision work (tactical matches) and have something other than my handguns & shotty for self-defense and the zombie apocalypse. Although I've shot a few over the years and know the basics, I am not versed enough with the platform to make any educated decisions on buying anything AR. Having said that, I do know who Larue, Noveske, Rainier, BCM, DD, LMT and the others are.

    I live in a state that passed legislation due to Newtown, Connecticut. Before it went into affect, I purchased 2 forged Mega lowers. They've been gathering dust since 2013 and I am ready to get them going... As mentioned, the main purpose of the rifle would be for tactical competitions. 600yds would be about the max distance I would shoot in the comps, but I have access to longer ranges and love to stretch the limits of anything I shoot. (I use my .223 bolt-gun out to 900yds using 77gr) Having said that I don't want a bench-gun, per say, and would like to be able to run-and-gun in the filthiest of environments and maybe consider 3-gun matches.

    I am pretty sure I am going to have the uppers built for me, but need to decide on a few things:
    • 16"-18" barrel?
    • 1:7 or 1:8 twist? (I will shoot 55gr crap when plinking, but will mainly shoot 69-77gr)
    • SS for the best accuracy?
    • Will any comp do? I won't suppress, but would love to keep the recoil down for follow up shots. Was thinking about the BCM Battle Comp?
    • Mid-length or rifle-length?
    • Geissele? I know... Dumb question, but don't know if there's another trigger I should look into.
    • BCGs?
    • Rails? Guessing this is just preference.
    • What else do I need to consider?


    I know better to ask which is best; Noveske, LMT, BCM, etc. But, I will ask: Do any of them provide better long-range or precision options? Maybe I am overthinking this. Maybe it's as simple as buying a BCM SPR upper or Rainier Ultramatch? So, if you have the time, I'd like to hear from y'all.

    Thanks,
    Little Yosh
    What kind of accuracy do you expect out of this do everything rifle?

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    Many thanks! I had briefly looked at BCMs website and saw some cool stuff, but I couldn't discern if the "accuracy" was there. I also saw a few things made by JP but didn'I know if that was overkill. Considering precision, quality and reliability, are they equal? Or are they apples and oranges?

    I shoot sub-MOA with my bolt-guns... Is that asking too much? Not sure I am asking for a rifle thay can do it all, but would like to accomplish as much as I can with one. If you increase one attribute, does it necessarily mean you have to decrease another? I know there are tradeoffs, but how extreme does that have to be? A great barrel would increase accuracy potential, yes? If so, cant I slap one on a Walmart Special and call it a day? Maybe. But, then I lose quality and reliability. Can you stick a crappy barrel on a JP and have it shoot lights-out. No.

    In the end, I just want a robust platform that I can squeeze as much accuracy out of it as I can.
    Last edited by Little Yosh; 03-06-15 at 03:54.

  8. #8
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    JP Enterprises > BCM for everything you want to do. People recommending BCM for everything around here, regardless of the intended use, is becoming a bad joke. The accuracy of the JP-15 is well documented, http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...rprises-jp-15/ Plus it will come competition ready, while the BCM will not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    Howdy! I am a long time bolt-gunner looking to get into ARs to do some precision work (tactical matches) and have something other than my handguns & shotty for self-defense and the zombie apocalypse. Although I've shot a few over the years and know the basics, I am not versed enough with the platform to make any educated decisions on buying anything AR. Having said that, I do know who Larue, Noveske, Rainier, BCM, DD, LMT and the others are.

    I live in a state that passed legislation due to Newtown, Connecticut. Before it went into affect, I purchased 2 forged Mega lowers. They've been gathering dust since 2013 and I am ready to get them going... As mentioned, the main purpose of the rifle would be for tactical competitions. 600yds would be about the max distance I would shoot in the comps, but I have access to longer ranges and love to stretch the limits of anything I shoot. (I use my .223 bolt-gun out to 900yds using 77gr) Having said that I don't want a bench-gun, per say, and would like to be able to run-and-gun in the filthiest of environments and maybe consider 3-gun matches.

    I am pretty sure I am going to have the uppers built for me, but need to decide on a few things:

    -16"-18" barrel?
    My Chrono testing shows about a 100-150 fps difference between a 16" and 18" barrel with an equivalent load, so you'll have to decide how much that matters to you. I find the 18" is just slightly slower for dynamic/multi-target drills, although some of that is what optics/accessories are mounted on the gun. 16" is a great length for "run and gun" unless you want to go the SBR route, but it sounds like you want more long-range accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -1:7 or 1:8 twist? (I will shoot 55gr crap when plinking, but will mainly shoot 69-77gr)
    I recommend a 1:7. 1:8 may not stabilize longer rounds such as 77gr SMK (some reportedly don't.) I have also run 55gr budget ammo through my 1:7 barrels with no issues. Normally I shoot 62gr and up though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -SS for the best accuracy?
    I will defer to others here; I have no experience with SS barrels. Chrome-lining is said to reduce accuracy slightly. Nitriding is also an option on some barrels though, and is supposed to last longer than SS if that is a concern of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -Will any comp do? I won't suppress, but would love to keep the recoil down for follow up shots. Was thinking about the BCM Battle Comp?
    That is a nice comp! Their gunfighter comp is also very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -Mid-length or rifle-length?
    I recommend mid-length on a 16", and rifle length on an 18", depending on which barrel you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -Geissele? I know... Dumb question, but don't know if there's another trigger I should look into.
    Again, no personal experience, but LOTS of anecdotal evidence that they are fantastic triggers (and they make other excellent rails too; more on that in a moment.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -BCGs?
    I'd get one that's a good match for your barrel. If you are REALLY concerned about accuracy, you can get a match-grade barrel with a BCG cut to match it. However, the BCG doesn't even have to be the same brand as your barrel to work (mine aren't.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -Rails? Guessing this is just preference.
    Preference? Sort of. I recommend a 13" rail on a 16" barrel, or a 15" rail on a 18" barrel. Quad-rails are usually heavy and tear into your hands, so a keymod or similar would take care of weight and ergonomics together. I wish I'd gone with a Geissele rail on my first build- got one on my second, and I love that thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Little Yosh View Post
    -What else do I need to consider?
    Maybe I missed it further down in the thread, but what distances are you shooting? FWIW, I built my first AR as a sort of "all around" gun, and my second as a longer-range SPR-ish setup. Which of those better suits your desired use? That will drive a lot of the discussion above to a logical conclusion. Others have weighed in on the "this vs. that brand" discussion, so I will rest here.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWcityguy2 View Post
    JP Enterprises > BCM for everything you want to do. People recommending BCM for everything around here, regardless of the intended use, is becoming a bad joke.
    Because M4C was not built around competition shooters and 3 gunners.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

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