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Thread: Mulling over a KAC SR15 right now... what makes for a good competition AR15?

  1. #11
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    While knights certainly makes a nice rifle, what are you getting on a sr15 that a lower cost rifle doesn't do? Personally iv kinda realised optics are more important than a roll stamp on a good AR. Simply put: I'd rather have a bcm+optics than a kac with iron sights.
    Last edited by turnburglar; 04-05-15 at 13:36.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

  2. #12
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    A pure competition rifle benefits most from a task oriented optic, a handguard that is as long as possible and can easily be gripped when braced on a barricade, a magwell that enables a very fast reload, controls that are easily accessed, a brake and recoil system that allows the shooter to accurately place rapid shots, and overall is accurate enough and light enough.

    A more precise rifle/ammo combination that runs the gun will be better than a less precise combination, as it will let the shooter get away with less precise reticle placement, and will reduce the wind variable. All of that is irrelevant if the gun doesn't work reliably with that ammo.

    Frankly, it doesn't require a high-end rifle to be competitive in 2 or 3-gun competition unless at the upper level. The biggest difference between shooters is really not the rifle, but individual skill with their rifle. One thing that the SR-15 is going to give you over most other options is that it will last for around 20,000 rounds with some minor part and spring maintenance. You will shoot $5k-$10k in ammo before needing another barrel and bolt, which means that you will easily shoot a few seasons with the same rifle, while being able to put in a significant amount of training to get to the upper level of performance.

    At the end of the day, the SR-16 is not made to be a 3-gun rifle, it's made to out-perform the M4 for government use. It does not achieve that goal by being low-cost, but rather by using advanced design and material selection to offer higher life-cycle value. The SR-15 is the commercially available version.

    I really like the new SR-15 Mod 2 LPR. Probably overkill for 2 or 3-gun, but very accurate and nimble.


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  3. #13
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    If you go to a 3G match and watch, then ask questions, you will get the info you are looking for. KAC is great, but no one is winning 3G matches with them, because there are better suited carbines/rifles for that game. JP is the top to the heap, in price and performance. Maine requirements are accuracy, soft recoil and muzzle stability for fast transitions. Rifle gas is popular, although the Stretch 16, with an intermediate gas system is gaining popularity. Believe a SR15 with a good muzzle brake and trigger would be a decent setup, along with a good 1X4 or 1X6 scope, suited for 3G. As has been said above, BE.com is a good site for 3G info.
    Last edited by mpom; 04-05-15 at 20:07.

  4. #14
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    Before I started making any sort of $1K+ purchases based on internet advice, I'd ask for a few other answers along with the advice...

    First, before I take anybody's gear advice I want to know if they're any good. It seems like the people who do the least comment the most on threads like this. Enos is a great example of that, look at who has a lot of posts recommending gear and then click the USPSA link in the sig line. The C Class shooters talk the most. And no offense to all the C Class shooters out there, but I don't want their advice. I couldn't care less what they think. 3Gun doesn't have the classification system like USPSA, but "I beat some guys at a local match" just doesn't cut it for me. Start asking what matches people have shot and how they placed or see if they've posted any match videos to watch to see who you're dealing with.

    And you've gotta realize that 3Gun / 2Gun isn't nearly as standardized as the pistol sports are, especially with all of the outlaw matches. Within 45 minutes of home I can shoot 3Gun three weekends a month, and all three matches are completely different in what you need to win. One match is a 3GN club with their typical super fast, straightforwards stages. Another is shot completely in pistol bays with your longest shot being around 40 yards. But they score their paper targets like IDPA, so accuracy is a lot more important than typical 3Gun. And their equipment rules are just bizarre, completely different than any other club. Another local club has almost all of their rifle shots at 100 yards and they shoot to 500 yards every month. So you've gotta ask what kind of match people are shooting and see if their experience will even translate to what you'll be doing.

    I have no experience with an SR-15, so won't comment on it's suitability for what you need. And without knowing what kind of stages your range will have set up, an answer on what equipment you need is hard to give. An AR with a dedicated comp, gassed and buffered to be smooth and a decent trigger are usually good advice across the board.
    HIPPIES SMELL

  5. #15
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    Umm, yeah. I don't fully understand the point of your post, because you don't really say why you're different than the wide group of shooters that you don't recommend listing to.

    The competitive difference between a good AR and a purpose driven 3-gun AR, if they both use the same optic and comp, is not that much. The competitive difference between a reasonably priced 1-4x optic and a much more expensive 1-6x optic is not that much. For 3-gun, the gun handling and shooting skills are so important, that the difference between good and great guns isn't that much. For all of those clubs which you *can* shoot at, the reality is the better shooter has the advantage.

  6. #16
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    Saying an SR-15 isn't awesome at dedicated three-gun competition is like complaining that trophy trucks aren't that great at rallycross - they're so impressive that even outside their primary strength, they're going to be more than adequate for the skillset of 90% of people who shoot 3G/2G competition. A lot of the guys who spend a ton of time posting about how much marginal gain they're getting out of piles of go-fast parts would poo-poo the SR-15 because it's only mostly as good. In the same way that I'm completely sure I could compete in tac iron with top of the line stuff and get humiliated by Jerry Miculek even if he was using a vintage lever gun and airweight .380, until you're at the competitive level where you're functionally an SME on dedicated hardware, the SR-15 is going to be more than adequate - and it does so much more. If you ever push beyond the accuracy capability, and find somewhere with lots of longer range stages, then the LPR upper becomes another interesting consideration, but the majority if 3Gun/2Gun competitions, guys who can shoot will show up with their MK18's and be surprised that they're finishing at least halfway up the order, despite bringing the 'wrong' equipment.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWcityguy2 View Post
    The competitive difference between a reasonably priced 1-4x optic and a much more expensive 1-6x optic is not that much.
    Sure it is. For someone who wants to be competitive in 3Gun the eyebox, clarity and FOV advantages offered by the more expensive optics are legitimate and noticeable.

    For reference I have experience with Leupold 1-4, 1.25-4, 1.5-5, VX6 1-6, Mark 6 1-6, Trijicon 1-4, Vortex 1-6, Burris 1-4 and 1.5-6, Busnell 1-6.5 and 1-8.5, and a Weaver 1.5-6(?) -- that I can remember offhand.

    I've settled on the VX6 Firedot for myself as the best combination of quality and cost, but it'll be getting their new 1-6 reticle this summer.

    The same could be said about your comment on a "good" AR and a purpose built competition gun. There are noticeable and useful advantages in the purpose built gun, beneficial even to the mid-level shooter. I've seen the differences on a timer enough to know it exists.

    My 3Gun experience includes top 10% finishes at the national level and top 5 finishes at regional multi-state matches.
    HIPPIES SMELL

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