What happens when you press a gun into an attacker's body?

[AndrewWiggin]

I've heard people say that when a handgun is fired against a person's body, that the expanding gases seriously complicate the wound. I tested the theory with a S&W 638.

Link for phones






Spoiler:










BB: 586.5 fps, 3.2"

Impact velocity: approximately 900 fps
Penetration: 14.1"
Retained weight: 134.5gr
Max expansion: 0.554"
Min expansion: 0.426"


It definitely tore up the clothing pretty well and added a lot of powder particles to the wound, but it doesn't look like the wound is any worse than normal.

Would the results be different with a magnum? What about a rifle or shotgun? Were there just not enough gasses from the .38 spl to be a factor?

[Ron3]

I would like to see the same test performed with a higher pressure round like 9mm or .357 magnum.

Still a good information though!

It looks again like that 135 gr Gold Dot just barely has enough velocity to open up. Lower the ambient temperature, have a cartridge on the lower end of the extreme spread, or add a little distance to the target and this particular GD does not open up.

[sevenhelmet]

In one of his books, Jeff Cooper describes a suicide where a man placed the business end of a barrel under his chin and blew the top of his head off using only a powder charge. They later found the bullet on the mantlepiece. I would expect the bigger powder volume of a rifle or magnum round to cause more damage than a regular pistol round. Either way, anecdotally at least, the damage from a contact shot is almost certainly worse than from a shot of any reasonable distance long enough for only the bullet to be the wounding mechanism.

[fz1boxer]

Wow interesting test

[AndrewWiggin]

Thanks for watching.

[spdldr]

You are describing the "bang stick" effect. A bang stick is a short and single barreled handgun on the end of a short pole. It is used primarily by divers for killing fish. It is also about the only way known to instantly take out a good sized shark. In use, it is jammed against the fish and the barrel slides back enough to cause the primer to contact a firing pin and ignite the cartridge. There may be newer designs out there that I am not yet aware of.

This is a significant advantage of the revolver in that if the barrel is jammed against an opponent and the trigger is pulled, the gun will still shoot. A short recoil operated auto will usually disconnect and prevent the round from firing. The effect is much greater than just the bullet, as the expanding gases are much higher velocity than the projectile and cause tremendous shock. I always recommend a revolver for defense against bears for this reason.

[Caduceus]

depends on a lot of variables. I had a patient walk in from the ambulance once after trying to eat a shotgun. if you google a bit there are some pretty horrific contact wounds.

At least from what I saw with the shotgun, that column of air in the barrel may displace the barrel just enough to prevent a clean shot, but also causes pretty massive stellate type lacerations. Not only the bullet track, but also flesh torn from high velocity gasses.

[T2C]

I would like to see the same test performed with a higher pressure round like 9mm or .357 magnum.

Still a good information though!

It looks again like that 135 gr Gold Dot just barely has enough velocity to open up. Lower the ambient temperature, have a cartridge on the lower end of the extreme spread, or add a little distance to the target and this particular GD does not open up.

We fired the 135g Gold Dot into ballistic gelation out of my Model 60 with 1-7/8" barrel. The gelation was shot at a distance of 15'. Rounds fired through 4 layers of denim and at bare gelatin opened up like they were designed to do with decent penetration.

I was unpleasantly surprised when the 158g LHP +P FBI load I had been carrying for years failed to perform as well. The bullets did not deform at all.

[AndrewWiggin]

The Speer 135 gr short barrel load is on the ragged edge of its ability. If you have a "fast" barrel, you should see good results. My 638's barrel seems a touch "slow". Take a look at my other tests. Even ATK's site shows the shot through denim had marginal expansion.

[T2C]

The Speer 135 gr short barrel load is on the ragged edge of its ability. If you have a "fast" barrel, you should see good results. My 638's barrel seems a touch "slow". Take a look at my other tests. Even ATK's site shows the shot through denim had marginal expansion.

ATK shows expansion at .577" and penetration at 11". It is identical to what I observed. I measured a MV of 866 fps out of my J Frame. Published MV is 945 fps.

It's not the best defensive cartridge, but it is pretty good for a small concealable firearm.

I haven't seen anyone who was shot with it though and that is the acid test of any defensive cartridge.