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Thread: Hypothetical: What Still Needs Fixing?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeM4 View Post
    The Magpul BAD lever is an easy addition to solve the issue on locking back on an empty bolt. Not "milspec" or military issue of course. Seriously though, locking the bolt back on empty is very minor. Is it really that hard???

    Regarding the elements, well its called gloves. I believe most soldiers use them anyway, and in the civilian world its easy enough to pack with your gear. I always bring mine in any range or 3gun event due to my hands sweating, or for better grip of the weapon.

    Yes, there was a video of Magpul handguards burning/melting after extended shooting. This is not usually a big issue, and really the handguard (whether plastic or not) is a minor thing.
    You are literally validating that these are indeed issues. The fact that you're saying, "Oh, just wear gloves" is a little off; the point of the discussion is correcting the issues themselves, not methods with which we can ignore them.

  2. #52
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    I doubt polymer handguard will ever see real serious use in a Military role.

    You will not see a FF handguard made of polymer either. It might be cool for the range, but now days I doubt anyone will be going back to them when compared to long free float rails.

    Aluminum rails also draw heat away from the chamber and barrel nut and act as a heat sink. Polymer is an insulator. Also rail covers are an easy solution to hot or cold rails.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 05-07-15 at 19:28.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    I doubt polymer handguard will ever see real serious use in a Military role.
    Um... what?

    Attachment 33159
    Vietnam

    Attachment 33160
    Grenada

    Attachment 33161
    Desert Storm

    That's... 26 years of "real serious use in a Military role" right there. The RAS for the SOPMOD program was developed and patented in 1998 (.pdf warning), and by the time Operation Enduring Freedom came around, several units still used the A2 handguards, developed in the 1980s. Much less the surplus weapons of those eras still in use by numerous NATO allies (such as the IDF, just to name one) who continue to use A1 and A2 handguards for "real serious use."
    Last edited by Dionysusigma; 05-08-15 at 02:42.
    Sent from the future using Squid Telepathy

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    If we could control all the variables, we'd just put all the bad luck on our enemies and stay home.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    You will not see a FF handguard made of polymer either
    Betcha it's on MagPul's "TO DO" list

    Polymer is an insulator
    Of COURSE it is- otherwise it'd be a poor choice to make handguards from

    Do you think these rail covers make my rails look fat?
    and feel fat and bloated
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    You will not see a FF handguard made of polymer either.
    Polymer.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/236...5-carbon-fiber

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysusigma View Post
    Um... what?

    Attachment 33159
    Vietnam

    Attachment 33160
    Grenada

    Attachment 33161
    Desert Storm

    That's... 26 years of "real serious use in a Military role" right there. The RAS for the SOPMOD program was developed and patented in 1998 (.pdf warning), and by the time Operation Enduring Freedom came around, several units still used the A2 handguards, developed in the 1980s. Much less the surplus weapons of those eras still in use by numerous NATO allies (such as the IDF, just to name one) who continue to use A1 and A2 handguards for "real serious use."
    I meant to say again, as in they will never see serious use again. Free float aluminum rails offer numerous benefits over polymer non Free float, heat shielded handguards.

    Going back to heat shielded polymer handguards would be a downgrade. Also the IDF train with M4's with bent barrels...just saying, I wouldn't follow them on all gear choices.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 05-08-15 at 09:27.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Betcha it's on MagPul's "TO DO" list


    Of COURSE it is- otherwise it'd be a poor choice to make handguards from


    and feel fat and bloated
    You also ignore the fact that aluminum handguards reduce chamber temperature and increase rounds before cookoff. KevinB has mentioned before about this, and how the RIS greatly increased time before cookoffs over the double insulated polymer clamshell handguards. Why would you want to go back, when we have better rails that offer improvements and advantages.

    So far it's all aluminum get hot, aluminum get cold, rail covers make me look fat.

    Polymer handguards are a downgrade over what aluminum handguards offer.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 05-08-15 at 09:25.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Carbon fiber. Helps to read the product description.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    You also ignore the fact that aluminum handguards reduce chamber temperature and increase rounds before cookoff. KevinB has mentioned before about this, and how the RIS greatly increased time before cookoffs over the double insulated polymer clamshell handguards. Why would you want to go back, when we have better rails that offer improvements and advantages.

    So far it's all aluminum get hot, aluminum get cold, rail covers make me look fat.

    Polymer handguards are a downgrade over what aluminum handguards offer.
    I don't ignore the fact that some aluminum handguards act as a heat sink. If they didn't, they wouldn't get so hot as to burn the shooter with high rates of fire. But that is cooling by radiation. Designing handguards to cool the barrel by convection air flow is better, whether they are metal or non-metallic. So a free float handguard made from polymer isn't a step backwards, it's trading the small advantage of heat radiation for thermal protection.

    While we have gotten off into the weeds by focusing on polymer, the real point was replacing aluminum handguards with non-metallic handguards. Carbon fiber is a good material and dissipates heat quickly. Couple that with cooling slots designed to promote convection air flow and you've got a better handguard. Trouble is, carbon fiber is more expensive. Developing a free float handguard from polymer is a good, cost effective alternative.

    Plastic covers make handguards fatter, heavier, costlier and are just another item to get knocked loose from the rifle and lost. I'd rather add rail sections that I'll use than add covers to rail sections I never will.

    I've never seen combat, nor have I trained for combat except how to wear a MOP suit while changing chaff/flare canisters during a hot turn around on an A-10. But I have spent many long hours outdoors in miserable heat and bone aching cold with firearms, tools, machines and equipment, enough to know that outside of a narrow temperature range, metallic human interfaces are a Really Bad Idea and I have the calluses, scars, aches and pains to remind me of that fact every day
    Last edited by MistWolf; 05-08-15 at 11:24.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I don't ignore the fact that some aluminum handguards act as a heat sink. If they didn't, they wouldn't get so hot as to burn the shooter with high rates of fire. But that is cooling by radiation. Designing handguards to cool the barrel by convection air flow is better, whether they are metal or non-metallic. So a free float handguard made from polymer isn't a step backwards, it's trading the small advantage of heat radiation for thermal protection.

    While we have gotten off into the weeds by focusing on polymer, the real point was replacing aluminum handguards with non-metallic handguards. Carbon fiber is a good material and dissipates heat quickly. Couple that with cooling slots designed to promote convection air flow and you've got a better handguard. Trouble is, carbon fiber is more expensive. Developing a free float handguard from polymer is a good, cost effective alternative.

    Plastic covers make handguards fatter, heavier, costlier and are just another item to get knocked loose from the rifle and lost. I'd rather add rail sections that I'll use than add covers to rail sections I never will.

    I've never seen combat, nor have I trained for combat except how to wear a MOP suit while changing chaff/flare canisters during a hot turn around on an A-10. But I have spent many long hours outdoors in miserable heat and bone aching cold with firearms, tools, machines and equipment, enough to know that outside of a narrow temperature range, metallic human interfaces are a Really Bad Idea and I have the calluses, scars, aches and pains to remind me of that fact every day
    Let me know when one of these ultimate, free floated, better ventilated and cooling polymer handguards hits the market.

    It may be possible theoretically, but so far I have seen none that can do what aluminum handguards accomplish. While we're at it, let's adopt a polymer upper and lower as well. Haven't seen a capable version of,those made of polymer yet either.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 05-08-15 at 11:37.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

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