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Thread: Bushmaster- better 15 years ago?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3ACR_Scout View Post
    I have one too that I bought in Nov or Dec '04, right after the sunset, and to be blunt, it turned me off from ARs for about 8 years. It functioned fine, but it was obviously not as well made as the Colts that I was used to in the military (I had just returned from Iraq and turned in my M4, so it was a pretty direct comparison). The BCG was staked properly, but not the castle nut, and the buffer tube / BCG sounded like they were filled with sand when I pulled the charging handle back. I replaced the RE with a milspec LMT and SOPMOD stock and added a KAC RAS, but after about 1000 rounds, I put it away and focused on pistols for a long time. It wasn't til around 2012 that I discovered BCM and got interested in ARs again. At this point, I'm trying to decide if I should rebuild the Bushmaster with a Colt LPK and maybe a new BCM upper, or if I should just leave it as is and use it as a range beater when the kids get older.

    Dave
    Personally don't know many commercial rifles that stake their castle nuts, but my Bushmaster's BCG wasn't staked worth a damn, and nowhere near that of my BCMs.

    As far as yours, I keep mine because it was my first AR and I like using it as an example of why you don't buy commercial rifles, so I have a valid use in my mind for it and well, it makes a neat and fun range toy since it looks retro now. I do not personally see the point in pouring money into a Bushmaster though, while I have toyed with replacing the internals on mine, or a BCM upper on it, it comes down for a couple or three hundred more I could basically build or buy a rifle of known quality new, like a BCM or Colt.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Eagle View Post
    Bushmaster is making great ARs. I bought a M4 E2S magpul edition last year and it is as well built and reliable as any Colt such as the 6920 for comparison purposes. Lots of propaganda out there regarding new BM quality and in my experience it's just amateur bull crap. I think Colt recently has more issues than BM ever will but the blind love for the old Colt prevents BM haters from fair analysis.


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    If you are having good luck with your BM carbine, that is great. How many rounds have you fired through your carbine and what types of ammunition have you fired?

    I am no fan of Colt and based my opinion about the old Bushmasters on personal experience.
    Train 2 Win

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by colt933 View Post
    Others debate this as evidenced above and elsewhere, but in the '90s bushmaster quality was in par with Colt IMHO. I was a class 2 at the time and we did a LOT of business with LE and transferable MGs and the bushmaster barrels, bolts, uppers, and FCGs were our go to components for good reason. Others have expressed differing opinions. YMMV

    At any rate, their products after FG took over are garbage.
    This is true - way back when - Bushmaster produced parts & rifles of really decent quality. I still have 3 or 4 lowers from them that are running strong. On average, these particular guns are on their 4 & 5th barrels. They probably have in excess of 20,000 rds each. They have had multiple triggers over the years, as well as different uppers and buttstocks. Never ever had an issue with dimensions/fit and durability. But to reinforce - this was over 20 yrs ago. I think I bought my first lower from them in 1993. Most over these were built into National Match Service Rifles and were shot hard for a long time. I have others as well to include Colt, Aero Prec, Armalite, Rock River and LRB.
    In the 80's and early 90's and for a good time after, Colt was a mess. I shot with a guy who was a Colt employee and worked in their tool room - some of the stuff he would tel me was just plane sad - (he left and went on to make his own competition rear sights - REG Tooling). Colt has had a revolving door of CEO's and labor issues. The late 80's were a disaster for Colt with the UAW strikes that lasted for 4 or 5 years IIRC. They had replacement workers who seriously lacked the experience to produce the same quality that had been the norm. Some of that stuff was utter junk. In the bigger picture Colt was waaaay behind the times - they tried to catch up with new "innovative" products - anyone remember the "All American 2000? LOL.
    They filed for what would become a series of Chapter 11's in 92. In the late 90's - I think it was 97 or 98, the CEO rammed both feet in his mouth in making statements that COlt favored permiting and testing at the Federal level. WOW - and talk about the backlash. This innitiated a virtual boycott of the company. This directly affected quality.
    Fact of business - when profits are down and Ch 11 filings are in - you trim expenses - that means labor and they got rid of dozens of experienced machinists, tool & die guys and technicians. Quality went into the toilet.
    Colt moved into the smart handgun arena and that backfired as well.
    The retired Marine - LTG Keys took over in early 2002ish and he basically turned the company around. They have significantly downsized their production models and have finally focused on quality. I am sure there are many many folks reading this that remember the ridiculous 2 pc pivot dimensions, the frustrating .172" hammer/trigger pins, the shaved down BC's, the blind pinned sear blocks and on and on - stupid stupid sh*t that was never necessary.
    Don't get me wrong - I love Colt, I collect 1911's and own some COLT AR's - but they are not on any higher level than a bevy of other manufacturers. There are plenty of mfr's on the scene today that produce absolute junk. Colt has figuratively shot itself in the foot over and over again. To wit the state of CT pension fund investment in Colt to the tune of $35M - at the same time the state of CT was banning the rifles that that drove the share prices - Colt did a horrendous job of lobbying to prevent that catastrophe. One of their "retiring CEO's was given a licensing right to the Rampant Colt - he left and every time they stamped the pony, they had to pay him. Bad business decisions lead to Ch 11 filings, financial restructuring and reductions in expenses - this directly affected the quality of their products over and over again.
    So - as this posting has gone - in comparison, BFI (BM) of the 1990's was as good and far superior to Colt in many ways. Colt also lost a ridiculous lawsuit to BM over the use of the designation "M4" - dumb dumb dumb.
    In fairness though - in todays world - I wouldn't touch a BM with a ten foot pole - I'd take a freebie but would never dish any dead presi's for one.
    I've wrenched on some of the new BM's - really shoddy QC - but like others have written - thats FG for you. I have heard very good things re: Windham Weaponry - which is the reincarnation of the original BM operation and a lot of the original employees who got screwed by FG - lot of back story on that.

    I've carried M16's that were made by Colt, H&R and GM Hydro - they all rattled like a can of bolts. The one exception is an FN and it was, for the sake of full disclosure - fairly new - so it was tight.

    Bottom line - things change. Some gets better, some get worse. No different with Colt or BM or any of the others.

    FWIW
    opsoff

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    There are a lot more AR companies out there then there was in the early 2000s, hell more than there was 5 years ago, forget 10 o 15. I would say if you want a quality, name brand product, you would be looking at Colt, BCM, DD. DD probably does the most advertising of their products, while BCM is really innovating, and Colt is just colt at this point.

    As far as Bushmaster goes.... I have an old Patrolman from not long after the sunset of the AWB. It has served well enough, probably over 3K through the rifle, my BCMs are far and away better rifles, better quality, finish, and shoot smoother, but the Bushmaster, hasn't been bad for what it is, but not run as hard as one of my BCMs either. My bushmaster came with a commerical stock, which has long been replaced with a mil spec one, recently returned it to factory-ish configuration, with carry handle irons, a BCM M4 stock from their site, and the carbine handguard and A2 grip. Fun range rifle and a decent back up not that everything is staked and I put a heavier buffer in it which did reduce felt recoil by a surprising amount. I would trust, but it isn't the rifle I would grab as my go to either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hank6046 View Post
    This^^^
    My good friend and shooting buddy has a Bushmaster that he purchased a few years ago through a law enforcement program that runs great with 4 thousand rounds through it, having said that I work at a range on weekends and have fixed my fare share of problems with them, DPMS and Bushmaster.

    You asked who's top dog now and to that I would give you a range of companies doing things correctly, however, I mostly recommend building or putting together rifles, less costly. DD, BCM, Colt, LMT, Sionics, anything off of Rainier's website, KAC, Noveske, and I'm sure a few others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    Personally don't know many commercial rifles that stake their castle nuts, but my Bushmaster's BCG wasn't staked worth a damn, and nowhere near that of my BCMs.

    As far as yours, I keep mine because it was my first AR and I like using it as an example of why you don't buy commercial rifles, so I have a valid use in my mind for it and well, it makes a neat and fun range toy since it looks retro now. I do not personally see the point in pouring money into a Bushmaster though, while I have toyed with replacing the internals on mine, or a BCM upper on it, it comes down for a couple or three hundred more I could basically build or buy a rifle of known quality new, like a BCM or Colt.
    Great info. I always thought my early 2000's BM's were pretty great, although the one I've shot the most, the 20" A2, did have a gas key problem repaired by a gunsmith.

    Oh, and I had to have a trigger replaced on my long barreled version. Otherwise, pretty reliable over a 3-4K round total between them.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    If you are having good luck with your BM carbine, that is great. How many rounds have you fired through your carbine and what types of ammunition have you fired?

    I am no fan of Colt and based my opinion about the old Bushmasters on personal experience.
    1200 rounds thru it flawlessly , really accurate with PMC 223 55gr fmj-bt
    the other ammo I use is the 55gr Remington fmj. Same great performance
    So I just go with those two n stockpile as needed.


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  6. #26
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    If Colt is mil spec (a minimum) then seems to me if another brand (when being compared by "specs") would be below milspec ( a minimum), then Colt is superior even if to the minimum.

    Only experience I have with a BM is me swearing I went through OSUT at Benning about 13 yrs ago and I had one. But nobody believes me so thats another story.

    *MY line in the sand has long been drawn.
    And in today's world... it's sobering to look what ground is left in front of it*
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Eagle View Post
    1200 rounds thru it flawlessly , really accurate with PMC 223 55gr fmj-bt
    the other ammo I use is the 55gr Remington fmj. Same great performance
    So I just go with those two n stockpile as needed.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Again I have a friend that has one and has put a good amount more rounds through it flawlessly as well, but I still think that there are better rifles out there for the money. I'd never buy one. Reminds me of a Prius, people tell me that their great, but to me it means that they compromised at some point. I've also had the opportunity to see a lot of them fail ( I group DMPS in with them), a lot of them. But good for you, I guess.
    I perfer black coffee in the morning, bourbon in evenings and spending money on sh*t I probably don't need.

  8. #28
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    Don't feed the trolls, folks...

  9. #29
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    Not trolling. Just have some older rifles and haven't watched the market over the last dozen or so years.

  10. #30
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    My first personally owned AR was a Bushmaster I purchased in the early 1990s. It was a good rifle for the money. Accurate to about 2.5 MOA with iron sights if I did my part and I never had any issues with it. IMO it's not the same rifle that they make today. Personally, I wouldn't buy one of the new ones. YMMV......
    “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
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