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Thread: Bushmaster- better 15 years ago?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTaco View Post
    Not trolling. Just have some older rifles and haven't watched the market over the last dozen or so years.
    Don't worry, my comment was not directed at you.

    Let me put it this way... back when Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt (the co-called "ABCs" of AR-15s) were pretty much the only AR platform rifle brands on the market, Bushmaster was considered a "relatively" decent rifle, since there wasn't much in the way of competition. Now that there are literally hundreds of brands, the only way they have been able to truly differentiate themselves is by promoting the quality of components, assembly, and quality control relative to others. This has resulted in a significant increase in the quality of ARs from many brands, but Bushmaster has largely ignored this competition and kept on going with their old ways of doing things, riding out the wave they created back in the 1990s in early 2000s. As a result, many brands have surpassed them to the point that, RELATIVE to the other brands, Bushmasters are now considered lower-to-mid "tier" rifles.

    There are objective measures by which one can evaluate the rifles produced by each of these brands, in particular the Technical Data Package (TDP). The TDP outlines the bare minimum specifications and quality control measures that any M-4 produced must meet in order to meet the requirements of the government. The standards outlined in the TDP far exceed Bushmaster's standards, which is why there are so many Bushmaster rifles out there that exhibit problems.

    The fact that some Bushmaster rifles perform fine does not change this fact. If anything, it says more about the AR platform than it says about Bushmaster, in that the AR is still functional even after so many corners have been cut. But does this mean that this is somehow OK? No.

    There are many rifles out there from good companies that far exceed the performance of Bushmasters sold at the same price point. There is no good reason to buy a Bushmaster nowadays.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTaco View Post
    Not trolling. Just have some older rifles and haven't watched the market over the last dozen or so years.
    BM never made a great rifle, still does not under new ownership, and far better choices to be had for approx same $$ or slightly more. There's really not much else that needs to be said I'd think. You can either carry on with the BM (I had one myself at one point not knowing any better either until doing the research), buy something else and keep the old BM as a back up rifle, or dump the BM on someone who thinks it's a good AR and get something better. I did the latter personally.
    - Will

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  3. #33
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    Very interesting information. I assume the Technical Data Package (TDP) is something manufacturers that meet the standard will make known to prospective buyers.

    Makes me think I should pick up at least one quality rifle and either sell off the BM's or just, as suggested, keep them as backup.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTaco View Post
    Very interesting information. I assume the Technical Data Package (TDP) is something manufacturers that meet the standard will make known to prospective buyers.

    Makes me think I should pick up at least one quality rifle and either sell off the BM's or just, as suggested, keep them as backup.
    I think we have a breakthrough!
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTaco View Post
    Very interesting information. I assume the Technical Data Package (TDP) is something manufacturers that meet the standard will make known to prospective buyers.
    Colt, BCM, and Daniel Defense are about the only ones who will explicitly mention it. LMT, KAC, Noveske, Spike's, PSA (although it is questionable whether or not the Spike's or PSA fully adhere to it), and a few others will hint about it...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTaco View Post
    Very interesting information. I assume the Technical Data Package (TDP) is something manufacturers that meet the standard will make known to prospective buyers.

    Makes me think I should pick up at least one quality rifle and either sell off the BM's or just, as suggested, keep them as backup.
    I was looking at several different AR manufacturing companies the other day.
    One of the local places sold "Rebel Arms".

    $1,100.oo+some change.
    So I did some research (there is even some info here on Rebel Arms) and straight from their website we can determine that the $1,100 rifle (at least) isn't MIL SPEC.
    I'm not even sure about the BCG but I know the barrel of said rifle was a 4140 barrel.
    I realize the S&W AR I bought has a 4140 barrel also (so did the 1st civi AR I ever bought, Stag Arms "MIL SPEC" - so they said) but I paid half of what looks like the same "spec'd" rifle except the Rebel Arms AR had a PROPRIETARY FF RAIL. As in a proprietary nut/wrench is involved as well. And that, is another subject all together.

    Here is enough reading for a long time:
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...e-Base-Threads

    *MY line in the sand has long been drawn.
    And in today's world... it's sobering to look what ground is left in front of it*
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    But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; - Ephesians 5:3

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I think we have a breakthrough!
    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    Colt, BCM, and Daniel Defense are about the only ones who will explicitly mention it. LMT, KAC, Noveske, Spike's, PSA (although it is questionable whether or not the Spike's or PSA fully adhere to it), and a few others will hint about it...
    So the hunt begins

  8. #38
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    Godspeed sir.
    I perfer black coffee in the morning, bourbon in evenings and spending money on sh*t I probably don't need.

  9. #39
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    None of which has anything to do with the Colt AR.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4Eagle View Post
    I want Colt to succeed but a company loses their way when once they were making world class iconic firearms... Single action army, pythons, detective specials, anacondas... And now they couldn't produce a production of the Python because they just don't want to spend on world class quality.
    The new CEO Dennis Veilleux comes across as a yuppie caretaker of this once legendary company of Sam Colt, the guy probably never even shot a python. Colt has lived off the decades old Armalite deal; giving them certain production advantages of which the novice public think of as the sacred mil spec. That spec is merely a minimum spec created by military bureaucrats n is exceeded by other AR manufacturers. So I won't get into a fan boy discussion of Colt or Bushmaster. But I do have some knowledge of the story n I do know Colt is extremely frustrated in the gun unfriendly state of Conn.
    The company is run by yuppie investors now who view cost cutting as the ultimate business vision. I have seen some really cheap looking 6920s on Walmart shelves...this ain't the old Colt anymore....


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  10. #40
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    If the last statement about Walmart holds any truth... I wouldnt know. I never did more than eyeball the Colts in the case.
    Reminds of something I heard about Walmart though. I know he said she said is frowned upon here but this is more about Walmart than an AR so I hope I can get a pass for it!

    In a nutshell, Walmart basically tells a manufacturer that 'we will pay you THIS much but will take a lot of them. Way I understood it was it didnt matter what the manufacturer would charge, Walmart dictated the terms or no sale.

    Would be interesting to see if the statement about Walmart Colts looking like crap is valid.

    Of course, I dont know if M4Eagle was saying ALL Colts, currently, or just Walmarts. The phrasing leads me to think the latter.

    *MY line in the sand has long been drawn.
    And in today's world... it's sobering to look what ground is left in front of it*
    ---------------------------------------
    But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; - Ephesians 5:3

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