Rand Paul filibusters the Patriot act renewal right now on CSPAN2...

[SkiDevil]

I see this all of this talk of rescinding the Patriot Act or eliminating over-sight, surveillance, and recording of individuals as semantics. As someone else once said, Pandora's box. There is no way of going back.

Who realistically believes if the next Congress rescinded the Patriot Act that the CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI, and other various alphabet Federal agencies would cease these practices and dispose of the advanced hardware at their disposal?

Over-sight and accountability with these agencies is extremely difficult, just ask one of the Congress members of the various select committees.

[SteyrAUG]

Yes. I do. Equal protection for all within our borders. It's one of things that makes us stand out as a beacon of liberty in the world.

I also believe in the rule of law. The law says certain liberties can be restricted for legitimate governmental interests. In their case, the full law should apply.

I do not believe we should be bringing them here though. Quick military tribunals ans swift executions for those aiding, abetting, and participating in terror against the US should be the name of the game.

So why should anyone be a US citizen? Why shouldn't I become a citizen of some Euro country and stop paying taxes if I'm going to be afforded exactly the same constitutional provisions as a US citizen?

[soulezoo]

So why should anyone be a US citizen? Why shouldn't I become a citizen of some Euro country and stop paying taxes if I'm going to be afforded exactly the same constitutional provisions as a US citizen?

Because you would pay higher taxes in Europe.

[skydivr]

If you think that shutting down the act is going to stop what they are doing..wouldn't count on it.

PERSON OF INTEREST....

[J8127]

So why should anyone be a US citizen? Why shouldn't I become a citizen of some Euro country and stop paying taxes if I'm going to be afforded exactly the same constitutional provisions as a US citizen?

Well Steyr, if you don't like it, you can geeeeeeettttttttttttttt out!v

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

So why should anyone be a US citizen? Why shouldn't I become a citizen of some Euro country and stop paying taxes if I'm going to be afforded exactly the same constitutional provisions as a US citizen?

Are you suggesting that the Constitution is flawed and needs to be changed? Perhaps a "living" document?

[SteyrAUG]

Are you suggesting that the Constitution is flawed and needs to be changed? Perhaps a "living" document?

No, I'm suggesting that the Bill of Rights used to be citizen rights and we didn't immediately afford them to anyone who happened to find themselves on US soil. The "living document" is how we got into this mess.

[Big A]

So you believe a member of Al Quida brought to the US to stand charges has the right petition government for redress of grievances? The right to bear arms? Protection against warrantless searches and seizures? Trial by an impartial jury? Freedom from excessive bail?

So you believe a Canadian citizen attending a U.S. college who is accused of an infamous crime, let's say rape, shouldn't be afforded the same protections for due process as you and I? Or should we switch it from innocent until proven guilty to guilty unless proven innocent?

Do you believe U.S. citizens in border states should be allowed to kill unarmed illegals they catch crossing the border and not be charged with murder?

You can't make one set of rules for U.S. citizens and then a separate set for non-citizens.

Now I have no idea why the hell we're bringing terrorists here to stand trail, and I agree with LSHD that we should try them by military tribunals and swiftly execute them if found guilty. But if we are gonna bring them here to try them we have to play by the rules we have established. But the SCOTUS has established that non-citizens don't get the protections of the 2A and 15A.

[SteyrAUG]

So you believe a Canadian citizen attending a U.S. college who is accused of an infamous crime, let's say rape, shouldn't be afforded the same protections for due process as you and I? Or should we switch it from innocent until proven guilty to guilty unless proven innocent?

I'm all for due process, but I don't think he should get to vote or petition "our" government for redress of grievances. The problem with this discussion is when somebody like me says this person shouldn't be afforded every right in the Bill of Rights, it doesn't mean I'm saying they have "no rights." This also changes based upon the individual in question. For example your "student visa" individual is going to be afforded more rights than a member of Al Quida captured in wartime in Iraq.

But there are some things, like voting for example, which are for US citizens only.

Do you believe U.S. citizens in border states should be allowed to kill unarmed illegals they catch crossing the border and not be charged with murder?

No and I never even suggested anything like that. But I don't think those illegals enjoy the right to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances" as found in the First Amendment for example. They aren't US citizens, they should have "no say" in how our government is run.

You can't make one set of rules for U.S. citizens and then a separate set for non-citizens.

Sure you can. Voting for example.

Now I have no idea why the hell we're bringing terrorists here to stand trail, and I agree with LSHD that we should try them by military tribunals and swiftly execute them if found guilty. But if we are gonna bring them here to try them we have to play by the rules we have established. But the SCOTUS has established that non-citizens don't get the protections of the 2A and 15A.

Because there are people who have a desire to undermine this country. And when it's guys like George Lincoln Rockwell it's the price we pay. But there is no reason we should have to afford ALL citizen rights to people who are not US citizens. That doesn't mean we can indiscriminately shoot them, but we don't have to give them the RIGHT to modify our government.

[26 Inf]

I see this all of this talk of rescinding the Patriot Act or eliminating over-sight, surveillance, and recording of individuals as semantics. As someone else once said, Pandora's box. There is no way of going back.

Who realistically believes if the next Congress rescinded the Patriot Act that the CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI, and other various alphabet Federal agencies would cease these practices and dispose of the advanced hardware at their disposal?

Over-sight and accountability with these agencies is extremely difficult, just ask one of the Congress members of the various select committees.

SAdly, even as I rail against the Patriot Act, I know in my heart what you have posted is true.