Rand Paul filibusters the Patriot act renewal right now on CSPAN2...

[Big A]

I'm all for due process, but I don't think he should get to vote or petition "our" government for redress of grievances. The problem with this discussion is when somebody like me says this person shouldn't be afforded every right in the Bill of Rights, it doesn't mean I'm saying they have "no rights." This also changes based upon the individual in question. For example your "student visa" individual is going to be afforded more rights than a member of Al Quida captured in wartime in Iraq.

But there are some things, like voting for example, which are for US citizens only.



No and I never even suggested anything like that. But I don't think those illegals enjoy the right to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances" as found in the First Amendment for example. They aren't US citizens, they should have "no say" in how our government is run.



Sure you can. Voting for example.



Because there are people who have a desire to undermine this country. And when it's guys like George Lincoln Rockwell it's the price we pay. But there is no reason we should have to afford ALL citizen rights to people who are not US citizens. That doesn't mean we can indiscriminately shoot them, but we don't have to give them the RIGHT to modify our government.

Then it sounds like you and I and the SCOTUS are in agreement when it comes to the 14th amendment. Non-citizens do not have the right to vote (doesn't mean they aren't through voter fraud but that's another matter) nor do they have the right to keep and bear arms. They merely have the same protections under due process of law as you and I when it comes to prosecution in a court of law in the U.S. And the 14th amendment protects non-citizens from being the victims of crime with no legal recourse for justice.

[SteyrAUG]

Then it sounds like you and I and the SCOTUS are in agreement when it comes to the 14th amendment. Non-citizens do not have the right to vote (doesn't mean they aren't through voter fraud but that's another matter) nor do they have the right to keep and bear arms. They merely have the same protections under due process of law as you and I when it comes to prosecution in a court of law in the U.S. And the 14th amendment protects non-citizens from being the victims of crime with no legal recourse for justice.

I would only add that some "non citizens" are able to lawfully purchase firearms.

[Big A]

I would only add that some "non citizens" are able to lawfully purchase firearms.

Sure, law abiding legal immigrants from allied nations. I'd have no problem with that.

[Averageman]

I agree that there are some seriously unconstitutional rulings handed down by the courts, however I do not agree that denying someone, regardless of citizenship status, within the borders of the U.S. and it's territories the protections afforded by the Constitution as one of them.

It gets a bit foggy when you pick up someone committing terrorism or espionage. Clearly if they are a combatant out of uniform and again clearly committing crimes against the rules of land warfare. Be that a ragamuffin installing a roadside bomb and caught in the act and out of uniform or someone on the level of earning one of their own playing cards in the deck of doom.
You decide to not play by the rules when captured and resist you are at the mercy of the highest ranking guy on the spot.
What the American public doesn't know or understand for the most part is that if you 'won" a sandbag over your head and a free trip to GITMO, you got it because of the mercy of the American Military. In many cases a bullet to the head was an option and sometimes deserved.

[jpmuscle]

It's so worth it guys.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-didnt-crack/

[mike240]

I agree that there are some seriously unconstitutional rulings handed down by the courts, however I do not agree that denying someone, regardless of citizenship status, within the borders of the U.S. and it's territories the protections afforded by the Constitution as one of them.

Uh okay. But not persons born in our territories are considered US citizens. They are naturalized but not citizens. So they cannot redress or petition the government either? Sounds like an issue that was dealt with in the 1770s.