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Thread: Problem with a new BCM lower

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    I DID read it, and I agree 100%. (Here's where I get myself in trouble ): MagPul makes aftermarket accessories.

    The AR15 has been manufactured for decades and the specs should be so well-known, cussed and discussed, and just downright public knowledge that any company who makes mags for it should at least take the time to ensure that mags work in receivers that can have some variation in dimensions in non-critical areas. In short: I believe MagPul didn't do a thorough enough job in design and testing on the mags with the over-insertion tab. They evidently spec'ed them to fit Colt receivers and didn't allow for some variations among manufacturers.
    I will now play devils advocate for Magpul. There are tons of lower manufacturers out there. An after market mag manufacturer shoots for the "middle" and hopes for the best. Some lowers simply won't work all the time. Some will work most of the time and some will work some of the time. It will always be a case by case deal. So I don't fault Magpul at all. They made a product that works in lots of lowers and probably have a high success rate with the M3.



    What I think MagPul may have done is to introduce the over-insertion tab as a way to address a problem with their magazines, and ended up potentially creating another problem in the process.
    I don't like to speculate on things like this on the net (as it can be passed off as gospel) so I will pass on commenting.

    Whatever one may say about USGI mags, if I am not mistaken USGI mags work in all receivers. That is why they are still my go-to mags and literally my only Pmag is the one that came with my Colt AR6721.
    My personal favorite mag (and hoarded mag) is the D&H mags with the Magpul follower that BCM sells in black. It always works for me. I also stockpile the M3 mag. Why? Some people will always want to barter for a PMAG VS a USGI mag. So I cover my bases either way. ;-)



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 07-14-15 at 15:10.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    My personal favorite mag (and hoarded mag) is the D&H mags with the Magpul follower that BCM sells in black. It always works for me. I also stockpile the M3 mag. Why? Some people will always want to barter for a PMAG VS a USGI mag. So I cover my bases either way. ;-)



    C4
    I am a BCM fanboy. I've admitted it many times. I also don't care for Pmags. I'm not knocking their quality or durability; I just don't like them.

    Having said that, all my BCM receivers like any aluminum mag from the oldest Colt 20-rounder from Vietnam all the way to tan follower mags to D&H mags with MagPul followers. I've not found one that was "suspect."

    I remember an ad in some print magazine many years ago. I believe they were selling either Orlite mags or Canadian military polymer mags, or some such, and the ad clearly said, "Will not work in Bushmasters."

    So the mag thing is hardly a new issue.

    GI mags all the way!

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The TDP covers all measuremements to the best of my knowledge.

    Colt hasn't licensed anyone to build an M16 or M4 outside of FN (who is ONLY allowed to do it for the Military).


    C4
    What about the rifles Sabre Defense built under mil contract?

  4. #164
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    If anyone happens to file their BCM lower magwell in the area in question and it fixes your m3 pmag issue, please post video. I'd rather not be the first to try a fix and damage my BCM SBR registered lower.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bang4Buck View Post
    If anyone happens to file their BCM lower magwell in the area in question and it fixes your m3 pmag issue, please post video. I'd rather not be the first to try a fix and damage my BCM SBR registered lower.
    I like this word "fix." Are you assuming there is something wrong with your lower?

    I would HIGHLY suggest NOT modifying your SBR.



    C4

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flankenstein View Post
    What about the rifles Sabre Defense built under mil contract?
    Sorry, never saw any of those.


    C4

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I like this word "fix." Are you assuming there is something wrong with your lower?

    I would HIGHLY suggest NOT modifying your SBR.



    C4

    FYI I bought the lower from you. I have 1 BCM lower and 2 complete 11.5 inch BCM uppers. All my mags are PMAGs. I like both companies so I'm not here to piss one of them off. If my BCM lower won't seat gen 3 pmags with a closed bolt, then something isn't right, so I am looking for a "fix". I am beyond giving a shit who is right and who is wrong, if anyone. Laying blame won't solve my issue.

    If there is not a simple fix that won't screw up my lower, then my BCM registered lower SBR is going to become a plinker and the Colt lower I am waiting on a tax stamp for will become my home defense SBR. I'll be damned if I'm going to have an issue inserting a mag in a SHTF scenario.

  8. #168
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    Speaking as someone who works in sales, I will say this:

    If I was a private company that wanted to make money and I had a new product (M3 mag) I would do my best to test it and make sure it did not have compatability issues with all the major lowers on the market. I'm not sure Magpul did this.

    If I was BCM, I would want to make sure my lower was compatible with some of the most popular new mags on the market. For the moment, they know there are issues with Gen 3 pmags, and BCM isn't making design changes to my knowledge.

    While we can argue that neither company did ANYTHING wrong and nothing needs to be fixed, if I was in sales for either company, I'd be calling the other to see if we can figure out if there is a simple resolution to improve customer experience and maximize revenue for both of us going forward.

    I someone get the feeling that call hasn't happened, and pride is getting in the way of finding a simple solution. I've lived this scenario too many times as a salesperson where I just want to find a solution but the tech guys behind the scenes won't budge, so common sense doesn't prevail.

    Who is at fault is irrelevant. BCM lower guys are likely to steer away from Gen 3 PMAGs and PMAG fans are likely to steer away from BCM lowers. This is beyond a TDP mil-spec issue. It is an economic issue for 2 private companies. Time will tell if their sales department wins or their tech/engineering departments win the battle.

  9. #169
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    Seems like this thread has run its course. The lower is in spec according to BCM, for use with mil-spec magazines. The PMAG is not a mil-spec magazine.

    If all you own are M3 magazines, buy accordingly.

    I'll continue phasing everything else out in place of the D&H mags Grant mentioned.

    It's starting to get out of hand, though, adding a $90 10-pack to a $7 trigger guard order.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bang4Buck View Post
    FYI I bought the lower from you. I have 1 BCM lower and 2 complete 11.5 inch BCM uppers. All my mags are PMAGs. I like both companies so I'm not here to piss one of them off. If my BCM lower won't seat gen 3 pmags with a closed bolt, then something isn't right, so I am looking for a "fix". I am beyond giving a shit who is right and who is wrong, if anyone. Laying blame won't solve my issue.

    If there is not a simple fix that won't screw up my lower, then my BCM registered lower SBR is going to become a plinker and the Colt lower I am waiting on a tax stamp for will become my home defense SBR. I'll be damned if I'm going to have an issue inserting a mag in a SHTF scenario.
    The FIX is easy. Stay away from G3 PMAGS. No mods needed to your lower. That is the simplest and easiest answer.

    C4


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