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Thread: Explanation of Co-Witness

  1. #11
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    I dont think there is a right or wrong way. It just comes down to personal taste.

  2. #12
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    The only reason I am taling about this, is because the are specs and requirments being driven on of this term "Co-Witness" and no one can agree on what it is and most will argue until they are blue in the face that there's is the one "TRUE" meaning of co-wintessing.
    Brett W

    Elite Defense
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    FN Senior Manager of Assault Weapons - SCAR Program 2006-2010
    Former Troy Industries Inc Director of Operations 2003-2006

    Each Warrior wants to leave the mark of his will, his signature, on important acts he touches. This is not the voice of ego but of the human spirit, rising up and declaring that it has something to contribute to the solution of the hardest problems, no matter how vexing!
    -Pat Riley

  3. #13
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    I thought the term co-witness meant that looking through your optic you could align the irons, preferably in the bottom 1/3 to 1/4 of the window. Some guys like their dot sitting right on the front sight post. To me that way is distracting.

    Here's how I do mine:
    I zero my optic 50yd POA/POI, turn it off. Then zero my irons 50yd POA/POI and I'm done. Irons I use for those times I'm a dumbass and forget to turn the optic on or it goes dead.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  4. #14
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    I zero my irons first.

    Then I zero my optic.

    When using my preferred red-dot optics (Aimpoints in LaRue mounts) in every case to date, the red-dot has been perfectly centered on the iron sight front post tip when looking through the irons and optic simultaneously. In other words, my irons and red-dot have the same POA/POI and are CO-WITNESSED.

    If my red-dot and BIS have been co-witnessed during the initial zero, then at the beginning of each shift/operation I can flip-up the BIS and ensure the red dot is co-witnessed as a quick verification that my zero has not shifted. Then I flip-down the BIS and go about my business. In my world, that is the main benefit of co-witness.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    Co-witness = seeing two at the same time, regardless of plane.. equal to or bottom 1/3. The key point is being able to rapidly shift to irons in the unlikely event your optic fails.

    An EoTech on a riser will put the irons below the red dot, many Aimpoint mounts do this by design. You then have to zero Irons & Red Dots seperately.

    Many folks get lazy and just zero the dot & move the Irons to it.... or vice versa. The validity of this zero depends on the plane of the optic/dot and the irons. Best to zero one then the other seperately.
    I have also heard as it as:

    A ability to quickly sight in your Iron after your Optics / Red Dots BZO'd, and adjsut your iron sights or buis to that point (seems kinda lazy to me).
    Brett W

    Elite Defense
    Vice President of Domestic Sales and Marketing


    FN Senior Manager of Assault Weapons - SCAR Program 2006-2010
    Former Troy Industries Inc Director of Operations 2003-2006

    Each Warrior wants to leave the mark of his will, his signature, on important acts he touches. This is not the voice of ego but of the human spirit, rising up and declaring that it has something to contribute to the solution of the hardest problems, no matter how vexing!
    -Pat Riley

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnFéinM1911 View Post
    I have also heard as it as:

    A ability to quickly sight in your Iron after your Optics / Red Dots BZO'd, and adjsut your iron sights or buis to that point (seems kinda lazy to me).
    Very lazy. I think they should be sighted in independently so you'll know each works on it's own.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  7. #17
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    I think that however it's ultimately defined, co-witnessing does involve being able to see and use both systems at the same time.

    As an alternative and to put a Pat Rogers spin on it, "...co-witnessing is watching TWO hot chicks get it on...."

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnFéinM1911 View Post

    Argument to that is this:
    Iron Sights and Red dots DO NOT print the same on a 25M zero target so if you adjust them separately @ 300m your will not have the same POA/POI. (This is why SOPMOD has offset Targets)
    brett, do you have a pic of that SOPMOD target? is it specifically for the aimpoint, or another optic?

    i always understood co-witnessing to mean that you can see the irons through the optic window, whether they be centered or in the lower third, and that when looking through the irons, the dot would be adjusted to coincide with that sight picture (sitting right on the front sight), or vice-versa, which would give you the same POA/POI as long as you look at the dot through the irons at any distance.

    once you look at the dot ABOVE the irons, then the POI will be the same as the POA only at that zero distance (25M). at any other distance, there will be a slight divergence proportional to your eye's height above the iron sight line.

  9. #19
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    I guess this is what I am saying. and I think everyone here has shown that there is NO true ONE definition to a "Textbook" or Doctrine to a actual Co-Witness. Its amazing to me that a term that is so widely used and thrown around as "must have" when buying optics and BUIS is a true unknown.
    Brett W

    Elite Defense
    Vice President of Domestic Sales and Marketing


    FN Senior Manager of Assault Weapons - SCAR Program 2006-2010
    Former Troy Industries Inc Director of Operations 2003-2006

    Each Warrior wants to leave the mark of his will, his signature, on important acts he touches. This is not the voice of ego but of the human spirit, rising up and declaring that it has something to contribute to the solution of the hardest problems, no matter how vexing!
    -Pat Riley

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
    brett, do you have a pic of that SOPMOD target? is it specifically for the aimpoint, or another optic?

    i always understood co-witnessing to mean that you can see the irons through the optic window, whether they be centered or in the lower third, and that when looking through the irons, the dot would be adjusted to coincide with that sight picture (sitting right on the front sight), or vice-versa, which would give you the same POA/POI as long as you look at the dot through the irons at any distance.

    once you look at the dot ABOVE the irons, then the POI will be the same as the POA only at that zero distance (25M). at any other distance, there will be a slight divergence proportional to your eye's height above the iron sight line.

    I do have one (a few really), I send a PM and let you know, but ecentailly it had POA being center of the target and you adjsut the Kit to the POI as drawn on the tartget.
    Brett W

    Elite Defense
    Vice President of Domestic Sales and Marketing


    FN Senior Manager of Assault Weapons - SCAR Program 2006-2010
    Former Troy Industries Inc Director of Operations 2003-2006

    Each Warrior wants to leave the mark of his will, his signature, on important acts he touches. This is not the voice of ego but of the human spirit, rising up and declaring that it has something to contribute to the solution of the hardest problems, no matter how vexing!
    -Pat Riley

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