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Thread: Extractor Spring Questions....

  1. #21
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    I use one of the circular hose clamps from the auto parts store. It makes it super easy to install.
    Im Shihan of Shihan Gear.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    How often have you personally seen this? I never have, but as I said, neither my work guns or personal ones have the whole package installed.
    I see fairly often, usually it's people beefing up extractors on middys and rifle length guns. Their problems are failure to go into battery sometimes and odd jams.

    My trick to getting the extractor pin is to press the extractor on the edge of the workbench and slide the pin in, it's actually very easy.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  3. #23
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    Thanks for sharing guys. I figured many of you were not using both the upgraded spring, and the o ring.
    On a seperate note, how many of you have seen the Armalite (AR10) DOUBLE extractor spring? It's actually a "spring-inside of-a spring"!
    It's the weirdest thing I've seen, and I just never thought Armalite would have gone that route.
    Anyone know WHY? I would have thought if they needed more tension, they would have designed a spring with more tension, OR found an AR10 sized O-ring.
    I guess they just found it easier to do the small spring inside of larger spring???
    I wonder if any AR10 owners around here have experimented with extractor spring setup as we do on our M4's??
    This is my first AR10, and I am interested to know what others such as DPMS, and KAC are using in their 7.62 extractors???
    Anyone know?

  4. #24
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    Extractor Spring Comparison

    I tried some searching, and couldn't find what I was looking for exactly so this seemed as good of a thread to necropost as any.

    In a recent order I added a couple of BCM Extractor Spring Upgrade Kits. I figured they were cheap and they would probably come in handy at some point. I was recently cleaning my rifle and decided to compare the factory extractor spring with a new one from BCM. The upper started as a complete DD upper I got from SmartGunner a couple of years ago when they ran a special that caused all sorts of drama (you can read about that elsewhere). It's a 16" middy with a lightweight barrel. The bolt carrier is laser etched with the DD logo and there are no markings on the bolt itself but I'm given to understand this is common with DD bolts. I popped out the original extractor spring (which included a black insert, but no O-ring) and opened one from BCM and compared. The BCM spring is noticeably longer than the DD spring as you can see below. Is this a normal DD extractor spring? Should I go ahead and install the BCM spring? The only issue I've ever had with this rifle is that I get occasional malf's with steel cased ammo (Wolf). I've never had an issue with brass cased ammo (except when I tried out a McFarland gas ring). Based on previous reading done here I was going to install the new black insert, but not the O-ring that was included in the BCM kit.

    By the way this rifle has between 1400-1500 rounds through it. If the new spring would increase reliability with Wolf ammo that would be great, but that's not necessarily what I'm after.

    DD on the left, BCM on the right.
    Last edited by SteveL; 07-17-13 at 21:05.
    Steve

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    I tried some searching, and couldn't find what I was looking for exactly so this seemed as good of a thread to necropost as any.

    In a recent order I added a couple of BCM Extractor Spring Upgrade Kits. I figured they were cheap and they would probably come in handy at some point. I was recently cleaning my rifle and decided to compare the factory extractor spring with a new one from BCM. The upper started as a complete DD upper I got from SmartGunner a couple of years ago when they ran a special that caused all sorts of drama (you can read about that elsewhere). It's a 16" middy with a lightweight barrel. The bolt carrier is laser etched with the DD logo and there are no markings on the bolt itself but I'm given to understand this is common with DD bolts. I popped out the original extractor spring (which included a black insert, but no O-ring) and opened one from BCM and compared. Should I go ahead and install the BCM spring? The only issue I've ever had with this rifle is that I get occasional malThe BCM spring is noticeably longer than the DD spring as you can see below. Is this a normal DD extractor spring?f's with steel cased ammo (Wolf). I've never had an issue with brass cased ammo (except when I tried out a McFarland gas ring). Based on previous reading done here I was not going to install the new black insert, but not the O-ring that was included in the BCM kit.

    By the way this rifle has between 1400-1500 rounds through it. If the new spring would increase reliability with Wolf ammo that would be great, but that's not necessarily what I'm after.

    DD on the left, BCM on the right.
    I only have one DD BCG, that came with my MK-18, and it has the shorter 4 coil spring like yours. It's an older version of the extractor spring, but it's been reliable so far with PMC and Wolf. Once I start having extraction issues, I'll drop in a 5 coil, and or, an extractor if required. The current wisdom, is to go with the BCM, or other quality 5 coil extractor spring for increased tension, with either the black insert or black O ring, but not both, for added reliability. I have a good supply of spare parts that include BCM and Spingco 5 coil springs. I'd run with the 4 coil until having extraction issues, then drop in a 5 coil, or simply drop in the 5 coil for peace of mind...it's cheap insurance.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  6. #26
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    Thanks for the response. I noted a typo in my post above and have corrected it. This is what it now ways.

    Based on previous reading done here I was going to install the new black insert, but not the O-ring that was included in the BCM kit.
    I didn't mean to say that I would NOT install the black insert.

    I'll go ahead and put the BCM spring and new black insert in the gun. This has me anxious to try shooting some more Wolf ammo (which I happen to have) and see if reliability is improved with it.

    On a side note you mentioned this is an older version of the spring. Do newer DD rifles come with the longer 5 coil spring now?
    Steve

  7. #27
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    This spring business can turn into a bag of snakes. My solution?

    -Mil-spec buffer spring for carbine/rifle (whatever you have).
    -Mil-spec ejector spring
    -CURRENT Mil-spec extractor spring with NO O-ring. This works on everything from the MK18 to the A4, and it eliminates all the guesswork. Colt did the R&D for you as part of a PiP. Just order it, it takes a few weeks, and they allocate it to you and it ships. I haven't seen it come "in stock", but I have received orders of them.
    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod4840.aspx

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    This spring business can turn into a bag of snakes. My solution?

    -Mil-spec buffer spring for carbine/rifle (whatever you have).
    -Mil-spec ejector spring
    -CURRENT Mil-spec extractor spring with NO O-ring. This works on everything from the MK18 to the A4, and it eliminates all the guesswork. Colt did the R&D for you as part of a PiP. Just order it, it takes a few weeks, and they allocate it to you and it ships. I haven't seen it come "in stock", but I have received orders of them.
    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod4840.aspx
    I didn't realize there was another spring floating around out there. Thanks for the link. As it is for now, I'll run the BCM spring and see what happens. As noted this rifle wasn't problematic (with quality ammo). I was just a little surprised when I saw the spring that came out of it vs. the spring from BCM.

    I didn't think about it earlier but I probably should have noted in my original post above that the rifle has an A5 RE with Sprinco green spring and standard A5 buffer. I guess you'd call the buffer the A5H2.
    Steve

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    I didn't realize there was another spring floating around out there. Thanks for the link. As it is for now, I'll run the BCM spring and see what happens. As noted this rifle wasn't problematic (with quality ammo). I was just a little surprised when I saw the spring that came out of it vs. the spring from BCM.

    I didn't think about it earlier but I probably should have noted in my original post above that the rifle has an A5 RE with Sprinco green spring and standard A5 buffer. I guess you'd call the buffer the A5H2.
    I run in everything from unsuppressed 16" middy to a suppressed 10.5" and it works great. Boringly consistent. Colt designed it to eliminate the need for the O-ring, while correcting all of the geometry flaws of the "5-coil" and other poorly designed springs out there. They compress far beyond what is healthy for a spring, the Colt spring does so only marginally. It's a very small spring, and wire-thickness and geometry play a big role. I remember when RSilvers was modeling all of the springs using software, this one far and away was better than any of the others, except the original M16 spring, which had much less tension than this one. However, it is designed to compliment the mil-spec ejector spring, and won't over-power it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    In my personal guns I use LMT bolts with whatever extractor spring comes with them, black buffer, and o-ring. I have had no issues with 14.5/16/16 middie guns extracting.

    My work guns have had black buffers, issued springs, no o-ring on most. No issues, even with extended firing/cleaning schedules, in fact, bolts break more often than extraction fails with them.

    This is just my experience though.

    I have a little baggie of BCM upgrades in case I do develop extraction issues or break/lose an extractor spring or o-ring.
    I use std LMT bolts as well. I employ Sprincgo extractor springs with a black insert. I also have baggies of BCM extractor upgrade kits for a rainy day.

    I agree that with modern extractor springs (including the Copper-washed spring from Colt) will equal or exceed bolt life in anything but the most over-gassed setup (maybe an SBR piston with a light buffer...i.e. a high cyclic rate and fast unlocking).

    OP, when you install them, they are supposed to be very stiff. That's very normal.
    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 07-17-13 at 22:26.
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