SC Gov to push for removal of confederate flag.

[sevenhelmet]

Had the U.S. lost the Revolutionary War, that's precisely what people would say about anyone flying the stars and stripes.

Probably. However, history is largely defined by the winning side...

[jondoe297]

Wow, I've never heard the South portrayed that way. Is this something you've actually heard said, or is it a projection of people's adverse reaction to Southern culture?

Pretty extreme to say that about one's fellow Americans- regardless of their individual failings.

I don't know that I would say it's that extreme, but I did experience it to a degree with the family of my first wife. She and her family were from New York, and I'm born and raised in North Florida. Among the things they would look down on was my gun ownership. "Must be one of those south things" was one of the remarks about it.

[brickboy240]

Yes...Southerners are portrayed in that matter by other Americans. Where the hell have you been hiding?

Unless you are from the South or have lived here a long time...you have no concept of how many have a sort of internal pride in being Southern. Northern people just do not feel that way about their states. Drive around anywhere in Texas and you will see the flag on everything. I don't even remember what the state flag looks like in most Northeastern states - I never saw it unless it was flying over a county seat or govt building!

Walk up and down the streets of Houston, Birmingham, Jackson, Baton Rouge or Biloxi and you will not find anyone that is dying to move to Connecticut or New Jersey! LOL

This partly explains how many Southern people DO see the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of Southern Pride. Many are really disgusted that the Klan has tarnished the flag's image.

[jondoe297]

Probably. However, history is largely defined by the winning side...

Of course it is. That doesn't make it correct though.

[Digital_Damage]

Isn't the current place for this flag the "compromise position" they chose already?

The flag is on a monument to fallen soldiers...not a memorial to slavery, slave owners or the slave trade. It is historically the flag they carried into battle. Most of the soldiers that died under that battle flag in SC NEVER owned slaves. The flag is small and on a much shorter pole than where it was before.

"...but, but it is used as a symbol of racism"

Yeah but the Klan also burns crosses in people's yards and carries the US Flag as well. Should we take the cross off the top of the church where the 9 were shot? I mean...the Klan carries that same cross....right?

The left (...and mostly liberal white northerners) have turned that flag into a symbol of slavery. They have beaten it into everyone's heads that we cannot have that flag anywhere.

I say that the flag should stay, since it is on a war memorial for fallen soldiers....NOT a memorial to slave owners or the slave trade. Slavery was the law of the land for a long time under the US flag but nobody is calling for taking it down on the Iwo Jima Memorial or any other war memorials...are they?

The flap over this flag is just silly. A little education in why it is on that memorial would go a long way. It is NOT intended to be a middle finger to blacks in that state - they have turned int into such a symbol and that is a tragedy.

A war memorial to traitors... to the United States of America. There is no way of getting around that point. I could be entirely wrong, but I have never heard of another country that puts up a memorial to honor a group of losing traitorous rebels that kicked off one of a the bloodiest conflicts in history resulting in the deaths of almost 1 million people. Seems incredibly backwards in every sense.

[sevenhelmet]

Yes...Southerners are portrayed in that matter by other Americans. Where the hell have you been hiding?

Concur, but the surprise for me was the genocide comment. I've never actually heard that suggested. I think I'd have harsh words for anyone making that sort of comment.

As to the state pride piece, I've seen state pride in other places, such as New York, especially in the city, but it's more of a "If you're not from here, go f-yourself" kind of pride. I find the Southern version more palatable. Then again, I'm Midwest by birth and a Texan by choice, so it's hardly surprising I can't stand New York.

[Averageman]

A war memorial to traitors... to the United States of America. There is no way of getting around that point. I could be entirely wrong, but I have never heard of another country that puts up a memorial to honor a group of losing traitorous rebels that kicked off one of a the bloodiest conflicts in history resulting in the deaths of almost 1 million people. Seems incredibly backwards in every sense.

I think that "Traitors" might be a little strong.
I would suggest that you really might want to take another look at a couple more sources for your information before using the term "Traitors".
If you and I have an agreement to start and build a business and decades later I feel that I am being mistreated in our partnership, why shouldn't we agree to disagree, dissolve our union and pursue our business's independently?
That may be a oversimplification of events, but perhaps not so much. You may also say that the South fired the first shots, but again there were actions taken by the North that were not so far from the very reasons the Colonies separated from England.
Take a minute and think about what might have been the benefits to an amicable separation of the North and South. In the end both would have become stronger and more versatile economies and the million or so casualties never would have happened.
For the most part the lessons learned from such a dissolution might have been necessary to bringing them back together again under more amicable terms to fight a common enemy or to rebuild a troubled economy.
Perhaps, and we will never know for sure; had that happened peacefully we wouldn't now be under the yoke of a stronger than intended Federal Government and States rights might still mean something.
But again, the winners right the history, but I think in this case every fifty years they rewrite the history to make it a bit kinder and more progressive to suit the needs of current policy, truth be damned.
Do we allow the Federal Government to dictate the removal of that flag? Do we remove it from hats and bumper stickers next and burn all books that oppose the current view of history? Or should we allow the history to stand, support opposing views and allow the States to fly the flag they choose?
So you see, perhaps we haven't become that 'enlightened" yet, perhaps ugly as it may be history should be remembered and taught not revised. The warts and scars and stupidity are a part of what got us here.

[wildcard600]

A war memorial to traitors... to the United States of America. There is no way of getting around that point. I could be entirely wrong, but I have never heard of another country that puts up a memorial to honor a group of losing traitorous rebels that kicked off one of a the bloodiest conflicts in history resulting in the deaths of almost 1 million people. Seems incredibly backwards in every sense.

So as long as the traitors win the war its okay ??

[Koshinn]

I say that the flag should stay, since it is on a war memorial for fallen soldiers....NOT a memorial to slave owners or the slave trade. Slavery was the law of the land for a long time under the US flag but nobody is calling for taking it down on the Iwo Jima Memorial or any other war memorials...are they?

Can not the same argument be used for the Nazi Swastika? Millions of germans died in WW2 and the majority weren't SS nor had any direct part in the holocaust.


Im not saying southerners are nazis.

[jpmuscle]

Who would have thought. Had we just got rid of the SC flag racists would not have anything to cling to. Hot damn.. Brilliant. While we're at it lets not call a football team the redskins because it's inflammatory and degrading to some people by choice. While we're at it I find teams with Giants in their name derogatory and insulting towards fat people, moose tracks ice cream is insulting towards women who get the indirect toe reference. I think we should revamp the conceptual social contract to include not upsetting anyone anytime too. That will definitely stop bad people from doing bad things.