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Thread: Melonite vs. Chrome Lined Longevity

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    I know this is a thread about longevity, but I'd like to add something I experienced firsthand with a chromed and then nitride barrel.

    I had a S&W M&P15R, the 5.45x39 version. It originally came with a chrome lined barrel. I shot Wolf 60gr through it without issues. Decided to make it into a pistol so I bought another lower (to keep it legal going to a pistol) and cut down the chrome lined barrel to 11". Again no problems. Later I decided to make a training carbine out of it and bought a Ballistic Advantage melonited 14.5" barrel and extended FH for it. Then I started having failures-to-extract. A lot of FTE. Never remedied the problem and sold the upper and ammo to a guy with the admonition to liberally use a chamber brush while firing or it would FTE.

    Now, to be fair it could've been an out-of-spec chamber. Could've been the steel-cased Wolf (there is no brass-cased 5.45 that I know of). Or it could've been the Melonite. Not sure. I have an MR556 pistol that I had the barrel nitrided on. Granted, I'm using brass-cased NATO ammo but I've never had a FTE from it so far.

    I'm sure this muddies the water a bit but from my limited experience steel-cased ammo + nitriding doesn't do well.
    Well, it sounds like you used ammunition expressly stated as NOT for use in this barrel by the company that made the barrel. The issues you had have nothing to do with melonite vs. CL, but with you putting ammunition in a chamber that wasn't spec'ed for it, from the sounds of it.
    Last edited by WS6; 07-24-15 at 04:05.

  2. #22
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    You are comparing a 5.45 barrel and too many other variables that could have caused problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    I know this is a thread about longevity, but I'd like to add something I experienced firsthand with a chromed and then nitride barrel.

    I had a S&W M&P15R, the 5.45x39 version. It originally came with a chrome lined barrel. I shot Wolf 60gr through it without issues. Decided to make it into a pistol so I bought another lower (to keep it legal going to a pistol) and cut down the chrome lined barrel to 11". Again no problems. Later I decided to make a training carbine out of it and bought a Ballistic Advantage melonited 14.5" barrel and extended FH for it. Then I started having failures-to-extract. A lot of FTE. Never remedied the problem and sold the upper and ammo to a guy with the admonition to liberally use a chamber brush while firing or it would FTE.

    Now, to be fair it could've been an out-of-spec chamber. Could've been the steel-cased Wolf (there is no brass-cased 5.45 that I know of). Or it could've been the Melonite. Not sure. I have an MR556 pistol that I had the barrel nitrided on. Granted, I'm using brass-cased NATO ammo but I've never had a FTE from it so far.

    I'm sure this muddies the water a bit but from my limited experience steel-cased ammo + nitriding doesn't do well.



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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Well, it sounds like you used ammunition expressly stated as NOT for use in this barrel by the company that made the barrel. The issues you had have nothing to do with melonite vs. CL, but with you putting ammunition in a chamber that wasn't spec'ed for it, from the sounds of it.
    Seeing as nobody makes brass cased 5.45 x 39 (yet, that I am aware of), all barrels chambered in this caliber sure better be designed to work with lacquered steel cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    I know this is a thread about longevity, but I'd like to add something I experienced firsthand with a chromed and then nitride barrel.

    I had a S&W M&P15R, the 5.45x39 version. It originally came with a chrome lined barrel. I shot Wolf 60gr through it without issues. Decided to make it into a pistol so I bought another lower (to keep it legal going to a pistol) and cut down the chrome lined barrel to 11". Again no problems. Later I decided to make a training carbine out of it and bought a Ballistic Advantage melonited 14.5" barrel and extended FH for it. Then I started having failures-to-extract. A lot of FTE. Never remedied the problem and sold the upper and ammo to a guy with the admonition to liberally use a chamber brush while firing or it would FTE.

    Now, to be fair it could've been an out-of-spec chamber. Could've been the steel-cased Wolf (there is no brass-cased 5.45 that I know of). Or it could've been the Melonite. Not sure. I have an MR556 pistol that I had the barrel nitrided on. Granted, I'm using brass-cased NATO ammo but I've never had a FTE from it so far.

    I'm sure this muddies the water a bit but from my limited experience steel-cased ammo + nitriding doesn't do well.
    Failures to extract have many causes and you can't really isolate this as a "nitride barrel" caused problem, you even state that "...it could've been an out-of-spec chamber..."
    Last edited by lysander; 07-24-15 at 08:09.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    Seeing as nobody makes brass cased 5.45 x 39 (yet, that I am aware of), all barrels chambered in this caliber sure better be designed to work with lacquered steel cases.



    Failures to extract have many causes and you can't really isolate this as a "nitride barrel" caused problem, you even state that "...it could've been an out-of-spec chamber..."
    It was my fault and I did not see the 60gr listed. However, Wolf Polyformance is not recommended in that rifle. Id o not know what load the poster was using, other than Wolf.
    http://ballisticadvantage.com/faq

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Well, it sounds like you used ammunition expressly stated as NOT for use in this barrel by the company that made the barrel. The issues you had have nothing to do with melonite vs. CL, but with you putting ammunition in a chamber that wasn't spec'ed for it, from the sounds of it.
    I had several different lots of Wolf. Some may have been the Poly stuff but not all of it. In fact, I specifically remember that some of it was the lacquered shit.
    Last edited by ABNAK; 07-24-15 at 09:11.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    You are comparing a 5.45 barrel and too many other variables that could have caused problems.
    I believe I did a decent job of being even-handed in my post. I didn't indict the Melonite finish, and as you even mention I brought up variables.

    I did note, however, that the same ammo worked fine in the original chrome-lined S&W barrel, both in carbine and pistol iterations. Ammo was the same, barrel/chamber finishes were the only differences. Yes, it could indeed have been an out-of-spec chamber, and if it was that is an indictment of BA and not the finish.
    Last edited by ABNAK; 07-24-15 at 09:17.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
    Can you tell us which manufacturers did the testing?
    No I cannot, but they know what their doing so…


    I will throw a bone out there though. When HK built the 416, they chose CL'd barrels. HK would have tested all options when building this rifle. There are 416's out there with 100k on them and still hold a solid group. ;-)



    C4

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    No I cannot, but they know what their doing so…


    I will throw a bone out there though. When HK built the 416, they chose CL'd barrels. HK would have tested all options when building this rifle. There are 416's out there with 100k on them and still hold a solid group. ;-)



    C4
    There are also HK's out there with 10K through them that are done for. HK416 production seems...variable.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    There are also HK's out there with 10K through them that are done for. HK416 production seems...variable.
    Any production is that way, but we know of WAY more high round count HK (in several different platforms) that have 100k round counts and are still holding good groups.


    C4

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Any production is that way, but we know of WAY more high round count HK (in several different platforms) that have 100k round counts and are still holding good groups.


    C4
    I don't disagree, but the comparisson may have been that of the MR556 series versus the 416. The MR556 type is no 416, the lifespans are very different.

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