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Thread: >223 case life??

  1. #1
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    >223 case life??

    I'm not new to reloading or to AR rifles,just never reloaded FOR AR rifles.When I was reloading for M14 and Garand rifles everyone advised to just load 3-4 times per case,then discard,to much case stretch to keep any longer.I'm going to start loading for my Colt LE6920 soon.I'll use 52-55 grain bullets that I have several hundred of and H335 powder that I have 8# of.Cases will be Winchester[new] or once fired PMC Bronze.No hot loads,I'm just loading for 100-300 yards to shoot with some friends for small group bragging rights.My dies will be Forester or Lee,I've had great luck with both in other cal.I do normal prep on my cases[trim,flash hole] and don't crimp.I should be able to find a load that shoots well without stressing my cases to much so how many loads do you guys think I can safely get per case.......I hope it's better than my other gas guns........thanks in advance.

    Best wishes,
    John Reno

  2. #2
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    >223 case life??

    I use my cases until the necks split or the primer pocket becomes loose.
    I've gotten numerous reloadings out of a case. I don't even count but I'd venture a guess that some cases well over a dozen or more.
    Last edited by Ryno12; 08-24-15 at 10:32.
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    Iam pretty sure that's the norm. I load to .223 specs not 5.56 and normally the primer pockets get loose or I find something I don't like and I discard them before the neck splits. I also shoot at 100m at paper so I don't need full power loads. With iron sights the front sight covers the whole target at 100 since I just use 25 yard pistol targets for everything.

    Might I suggest the lee factory crimp die,i know some dont crimp but I do just to make sure the bullet stays put.
    Last edited by texasgunhand; 08-24-15 at 15:23.

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    There's guys who've gotten 18 loadings out of a case. I think maybe it was Molon who did it. Each kind of brass is different. 4-6 is probably what I get, but I don't keep track.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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    We get about 4-6 loads and necks start splitting. We do load to the mid to upper end of .223 usually with 25.0 gr of Win748. RCBS dies and just a kiss of a crimp.
    Last edited by .46caliber; 08-24-15 at 19:16.

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    John Reno

    Below is a good book with a lot of information on reloading by someone with a good bit of experience under his belt. And you asked about "how many reloads do we get from our cases". Your question covers a lot of ground and one of my pet peeves is reloading dies. I have five different full length .223/5.56 reloading dies to help with what I'm about to say.

    We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and our chamber and dies come in different sizes. My "worst" die is a Lee full length die and I say this because this die sizes the base of the case more than any small base die I own. This same Lee die will push the shoulder back further than any other die I have. The dies I like the best are the RCBS AR series dies because they do not over work the brass.

    Now to Mr. Zediker and his book and reloading tips. He tells you to measure a new unfired case at several points from the base to the neck. He then tells you to measure the same case at the same points after firing and after full length sizing. The resized case should be at least .003 smaller than its fired size and .005 smaller is optimum for the AR15 rifle.

    Bottom line, chamber pressure, brass quality and "NOT" over working your brass are all factors in case life. Enlarged primer pockets are caused by higher chamber pressures and exceeding the elastic limits of the brass. And neck splits happen early from over working the case neck. So your cases will last longer when you do not shoot at maximum pressures. And if you have resizing dies that do not over work the brass.




    And one other note, I keep reading about a "difference" in .223 and 5.56 chamber pressures. So remember this, both the .223 and 5.56 are loaded to the same chamber pressure of 52,000 cup or 55,000 psi. And the actual difference is the throats of these rifles, and "NOTHING" is written in stone. I have two AR15 rifles and a Bolt action Savage .223. And the throat in my Savage is longer than my AR15 rifles.

    Below is the milspec for civilian commercial contract 5.56 M885 ammunition made for the military and the max rated pressure is 55,000 psi. In a older version of this milspec both 52,000 cup and 55,000 psi are listed. So don't do as so many do and confuse the European NATO CIP standard of chamber pressure at 62,000 psi using a different pressure measuring method than we use in the U.S. Meaning 52,000 cup, 55,000 psi and the European CIP 62,000 psi are the exact same pressures measured three different ways.




    Now look at the link below and "see" how much longer my Savage throat is than the AR15 rifle. Savage decided the chamber should be big enough for the cartridge and the company lawyer to fit in.

    HOLLIGER ON .223/5.56 CHAMBERS
    http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm

    Another good read below.

    Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
    http://www.massreloading.com/dies_ov...ing_brass.html

    And the best for last, you can buy Forster full length resizing dies and have the neck honed by them to your desired diameter.

    "If you purchase a Forster non-bushing, full-length sizing die, Forster will hone the neck dimension to your specs for about $10.00 extra. This way you can have a FL die that provides the right amount of tension for your particular load. Forster dies are relatively inexpensive so you can afford to have a couple of FL dies with necks honed to different diameters"

    FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
    http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...honed-fl-dies/

    Meaning honing the neck diameter of the die to match the neck thickness of the cases you are using, and making your case necks last longer. And forget bushing dies, if the bushing reduces the neck diameter in one step over .005 the bushing die can induce neck runout.
    Last edited by bigedp51; 08-25-15 at 11:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post

    There's guys who've gotten 18 loadings out of a case. I think maybe it was Molon who did it.
    Fired 19 times and counting . . .












    ....
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    Thanks a lot for the replies guys,it helps to see what others are getting....bigedp51:I read Glen's book a few weeks ago,borrowed from a friend.I have all the equipment he talks about from my days of shooting Palma,NRA Highpower and 1000 yd. matches with my .30 cals.This rifle was just bought for fun with friends,at 68 I'm to old to spend all that time any more and at the short ranges we will be shooting it's really not needed with the rifles and scopes we use.I guess I'll shoot for 4-6 reloads per case and I have enough to cut/section a few as I go to check on how they are holding up.I was thinking the AR action might be a little easier on brass and it looks like it is,even in a semi mil-spec rifle instead of a full blown target rifle.I'll report back with what I find and thanks again for the help,it is appreciated.

    Best wishes,
    John Reno

  9. #9
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    John Reno

    You do not need to section your cases if you buy the RCBS case mastering gauge, it is the Swiss Army knife of gauges. And can work as a $100.00 bent paper clip that reads in thousandths of an inch. I collected British Enfield rifles and and checked each case after firing for thinning in the web and looking for possible case head separations. All I had to do was stone the tip of the rod so it would not scratch the insides of the case.






    Below a factory loaded once fired Winchester .303 British case that stretched and thinned .009 in its first firing. And the scratches the rod caused before the tip was stoned.

    Last edited by bigedp51; 08-25-15 at 21:50.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Reno View Post
    I'm not new to reloading or to AR rifles,just never reloaded FOR AR rifles.When I was reloading for M14 and Garand rifles everyone advised to just load 3-4 times per case,then discard,to much case stretch to keep any longer.I'm going to start loading for my Colt LE6920 soon.I'll use 52-55 grain bullets that I have several hundred of and H335 powder that I have 8# of.Cases will be Winchester[new] or once fired PMC Bronze.No hot loads,I'm just loading for 100-300 yards to shoot with some friends for small group bragging rights.My dies will be Forester or Lee,I've had great luck with both in other cal.I do normal prep on my cases[trim,flash hole] and don't crimp.I should be able to find a load that shoots well without stressing my cases to much so how many loads do you guys think I can safely get per case.......I hope it's better than my other gas guns........thanks in advance.

    Best wishes,
    John Reno
    Is your Winchester and PMC ammo .223 or 5.56?

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