LEA's left and right seem to be ditching the M&P...what for?

[Slater]

Well, before the Gen 4 issues came along, the Glock 17 was arguably the most reliable out-of-the-box pistol around.Of course, not that all Agencies used that particular model.

[T2C]

FWIW...HPD has never used the M&P. They used S&W 5906s replaced with G17GEN4s. Its the 5906s that are being destroyed, to include around 200 NIB never issued. I didn't notice the model number in the article but can assure you its not M&Ps.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...lice-firearms/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolu...t#Duty_Weapons

This is not a fiscally responsible move and if I were a Honolulu resident I would be angry that my tax dollars were being wasted.

[JHC]

Well, before the Gen 4 issues came along, the Glock 17 was arguably the most reliable out-of-the-box pistol around.Of course, not that all Agencies used that particular model.

And Surf reported on these pages last year about how he was involved in fielding well over 1000 Gen 4 G17s in Hawaii with great results.

[Trajan]

Maybe SOCOM is about to leave the Glock en masse too. Or maybe they already have!

?????

[ST911]

Here's the thread for discussion of the Honolulu gun destruction: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...arms-(Article)

[HCM]

FWIW...HPD has never used the M&P. They used S&W 5906s replaced with G17GEN4s. Its the 5906s that are being destroyed, to include around 200 NIB never issued. I didn't notice the model number in the article but can assure you its not M&Ps.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...lice-firearms/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolu...t#Duty_Weapons

This ^^^^ the guns destroyed were rather old and tired S&W 5906's . It was still a waste of money but it's not unexpected given the extreme left lean of HI politics.

[HCM]

The TXDPS fiasco with the M&P was nonsense. They repeatedly claimed that they found "movement of several microns" in their pistols or some such idiocy.

I doubt there's anyone working for TXDPS that has the mental ability to measure in microns, even if they did have the equipment.

0.00003937007874015748--That's the conversion of a micron to an inch.

Here's the deal with TX DPS and the M&P's:

1) The primary reason for switching guns from the P226R DAK in 357 was not gun issues. It was a caliber switch from 357SSIG TO 9 millimeter driven by cost, logistics, and the improvements in 9 mm duty ammunition since the mid-1990s when the 357 SIG was adopted.

2) Many of the staff at the Dps Academy range, including the former unit commander or PPC competitors who had ongoing relationships with Smith and Wesson. The M&P was unilaterally selected by the Academy range staff without input from firearms instructors for troopers from the field. Supposedly the M&P 9 mm's T&E'ed by the Dps Academy staff worked great and did not show any of the accuracy issues associated with earlier M&P 9 mms.

3) The first basic recruit class of 2014 were the first DPS troopers to receive M&P 9 mms. During the firearms training for this recruit class the majority of the guns issued experienced reliability issues, specifically failures to extract and eject, rear sights drifting in the dovetail even with the set screw tightened down all the way and magazines ejecting from the guns during strings of fire. Strangely enough, given the M&P 9mm's history of accuracy issues none were noted. The accuracy was good when the guns worked. There were enough problems that the recruits were quickly retrained and qualified on the p226 in 357 prior to being sent out on the road.

4) early in 2015, Texas DPS held trials for selection of a new 9 mm handgun. This was an open solicitation and the testing staff included troopers and firearms instructors from the field as well as the Dps Academy staff. The Gen 4 Glock 17, the HK VP 9 and the SIG P320 FS All passed the requirements. The Smith & Wesson M and P and the Beretta PX for storm were among the guns tested which did not pass the requirements. There hasn't yet been a formal announcement, but rumor has it Dps will be going with the sick P320. This makes sense given Texas DPS has been and SIG agency ever since giving up revolvers 20+ years ago.

For whatever reason it seems the 9 mm and 357 versions of the M&P have been the most problematic. The agencies using the 40 and 45 caliber versions have had good service. For example, here in central Texas the two largest municipal police departments, San Antonio PD and Austin PD both transitioned from Gen 3 Glock 40s to the M&P 40 witjout any widespread issues.SA PD has approximately 2000 officers, Austin is a bit smaller but I believe they also have over 1000 officers.

[jbourneidentity]

Just throwing this out there based on what I've seen...

I'm a cop and now full-time LE trainer at a police academy. When I left the street 7 years ago, the M&P was making steady gains in LE holsters in my home state of Arkansas. In the last few years; however, that has almost stopped completely. We train approximately 120 officers each year and 95% use Glocks in .40, but the 9mm, and particularly .45, are making huge in-roads. The M&P has gone the way of the 8 track tape. Finding one in an LE holster here is like finding a unicorn. The remaining 5% is occupied by the Sig Sauer P-series handguns. XDs haven't been represented in several months.

I think many officers initially wanted to be loyal to S&W as an American company, and so for a short time, they tried the M&P, but the design's gritty and inconsistent trigger, along with the terrible 9mm FS accuracy and barrel issues, it just died on the vine. Plus, Glock has wisely advertised in magazines and social media how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they donate to American LE charities, and they are now manufacturing guns in the States, so officers have gravitated back toward the more established G22, G17, G21...Plus, when you factor in the well-publicized M&P failures with LE in TX and CA, it has helped killed interest in the pistol. As Ken Hackathorn famously said of the M&P problems, "S&W snatched defeat from the jaws of victory."

On the civilian side, I have a friend who owns a very successful pawn shop. He said that with the exception of the Shield, they can't give M&Ps away. Same thing with XDs. He said Glocks are his most consistent sellers by far.

[CanineCombatives]

There you have it, as someone who has dipped a toe into the M&P waters also, I came away with one conclusion; no thanks.

[Tzook]

I'm really pretty surprised to hear this. I have always recommended M&P to people who aren't particularly into Glocks, and I've never personally had any kind of issues with one, although granted through a significantly smaller sample size. Guess I'm going to have to start telling people Glock-way or the highway....