HK 45 Tactical and +P = slower splits

[Nathan_Bell]

Had the time and weather to get some shooting in this afternoon (Sunday) and took out my "45 collection" a Kimber Classic Custom 1911, G21 and the titular HK Tactical 45.

I shot my 25 yard bullseye to start the time off and shoot the best with the Kimber with the HK coming in a close second.

I then went in to the 7yd mark for some presentation work. Fired about 30 rounds from the 1911 and then quit playing and started working with the G21 as I consider it my 'go to gun'. I was comfortable and getting on target from draw quickly (for me) with the first shot going off at 1.5-1.7, with second shot splits around .45-.55. Decided to switch to the HK and see how it was doing as all I have used it for up to this point has been quasi bullseye shooting.

Was getting the first shot of a little slower, 1.8 was the average, I was blaming that on the fact the pistol has black sights and I am used to having a dot of some sort on the front blade (wasn't that I make a sloth look speedy. Nope). I was pleasantly surprised with the splits though .55 range once I got onto the reset difference from the G21. I am ignoring the 1 second + one where I short stroked the reset and brainlocked when it no go boom when I was squeezing like mad on the trigger.

I then ran out of my cheap blasting ammo and wanting to finish up a few more presentations I grabbed some of my Winchester +P ammo. I could tell it was a bit sharper when I checked POI with a few shots, but I didn't realise it would cause as much extra 'flip' and slow me down so much.

Splits were .75 range with the +P! Pissed around with my grip but could not improve them by an appreciable amount. Put the +P into the G21 to see if it was screwing me up in it. Nope.

I knew that the height of the bore of the HK is known to cause grief, but the difference between the training load (magtech) and the +P seemed to put me over the edge into it is a PITA range.

[mark5pt56]

I wouldn't get to hung up on the split times, that's just me. Big thing is being consistent with your splits and delivering the hits on target.

I know there's a difference with the guns for you, that maybe that you could more familiar with the G21?

Some people may talk about their .15-.20 splits, ok, but on what target and distance and what hits as well. Is it a comp gun with light loads?

[ToddG]

Some people may talk about their .15-.20 splits, ok, but on what target and distance and what hits as well. Is it a comp gun with light loads?

I can consistently hit sub-0.20 splits shooting 124gr +p JHPs from my M&P9 (stock springs, etc.) keeping all my shots on a 5x8 card (slightly smaller than half a sheet of paper) at 7yd ... and quite often sub-0.15 splits. I consider a 0.20 split on an 8" circle at 7yd a pretty good measure of someone who knows how to shoot fast & accurately.

The last .45 I shot seriously was a P220, but doing the same drill I know I was getting splits at or below 0.20 (though probably not 0.15). I definitely find that +p .45 ammo makes for more noticeable flip than standard pressure, compared to 9mm which is really almost identical.

Nathan, a key piece of information missing from your post is: what target were you shooting at when measuring your splits? I do "speed" work on 3x5 cards at 3-15 yards and my splits certainly aren't 0.20 on a 3x5 @ 15yd!

[mark5pt56]

I can consistently hit sub-0.20 splits shooting 124gr +p JHPs from my M&P9 (stock springs, etc.) keeping all my shots on a 5x8 card (slightly smaller than half a sheet of paper) at 7yd ... and quite often sub-0.15 splits. I consider a 0.20 split on an 8" circle at 7yd a pretty good measure of someone who knows how to shoot fast & accurately.

The last .45 I shot seriously was a P220, but doing the same drill I know I was getting splits at or below 0.20 (though probably not 0.15). I definitely find that +p .45 ammo makes for more noticeable flip than standard pressure, compared to 9mm which is really almost identical.

Nathan, a key piece of information missing from your post is: what target were you shooting at when measuring your splits? I do "speed" work on 3x5 cards at 3-15 yards and my splits certainly aren't 0.20 on a 3x5 @ 15yd!

TD, You know there are exceptions, I should've said that-and that some people leave out the variables mentioned when stating split times. I did a 10 yard Bill Drill yesterday, 2:39, all hits on a 8" circle, ok I guess. Stock G17, Nato ball, ALS holster.

[ToddG]

mark -- Agreed. That's why I asked Nathan what he was shooting at. If he's trying to hit the X on a 25yd NRA bull @ 7yd, his splits will be a lot slower than if he's trying to keep within the 6-ring. At least, his splits should be slower.

Sending you a PM with a drill I wouldn't mind you trying, if you get the chance down there ...

[mark5pt56]

mark -- Agreed. That's why I asked Nathan what he was shooting at. If he's trying to hit the X on a 25yd NRA bull @ 7yd, his splits will be a lot slower than if he's trying to keep within the 6-ring. At least, his splits should be slower.

Sending you a PM with a drill I wouldn't mind you trying, if you get the chance down there ...

Sweet! Thanks, I'll try tomorrow maybe, I should get the time.

[ToddG]

No sweat. It's only fair, since now I have to see if I can hit 2.39 on a Bill Drill at 10yd while I'm at the range tomorrow.

[mark5pt56]

No sweat. It's only fair, since now I have to see if I can hit 2.39 on a Bill Drill at 10yd while I'm at the range tomorrow.

I forget the proper distance and target size, I want to say 7 yards, 8"?

[ToddG]

A "true" Bill Drill is done on an IPSC target at 10yd, the goal being the fastest possible time with all A-zone hits.

edited to add: an IPSC A-zone is ~5.9" wide by ~9.4" high.

edited to add #2: So an IPSC A-zone is a little shy of 56 square inches and obviously favors vertical stringing. An 8" plate is just slightly more than 50 square inches and obviously doesn't give the same amount of forgiveness for breaking early followups.

[Nathan_Bell]

mark -- Agreed. That's why I asked Nathan what he was shooting at. If he's trying to hit the X on a 25yd NRA bull @ 7yd, his splits will be a lot slower than if he's trying to keep within the 6-ring. At least, his splits should be slower.

Sending you a PM with a drill I wouldn't mind you trying, if you get the chance down there ...

Target was a piece of notebook paper folded in half width wise with a dot sharpied on it stapled to the stand.
Hey, I'm cheap.