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"I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein
I'm a PWS fanboy as well, so I feel your pain. As I stated earlier though, the operating conditions (full auto all the time) and failure criteria (broken or inoperable parts; key holing at 10y) do not resemble real world conditions so I take the results with a large grain of salt (because fanboy?). It does not seem like FTF and FTEs are tracked very closely based on what I've read but I think that everyone would agree that those play a large role in assessing a weapon's reliability and durability. I frankly put more trust in real world endurance tests like DMack, Todd G, and even Lucky Grunner.
I thought that USGI mags were more prone to bent and damaged feed lips when they hit the deck during reloads. I'm guessing that reloads are a lot more gentle at BLV and possibly even performed by RSOs.
Last edited by GiddyHitch; 09-17-15 at 00:42.
Yup. Could also be something as simple as availability of spares and replacement parts. I can think of a few places just off the top of my head that stock LMT and DD BCG's, but running any kind of proprietary setup means there's probably some unavoidable bottlenecks in supply chain possible.
I'd put a lot of other real-world tests ahead of this, but again it's another data point, that further reinforces the trend that: properly lubricated AR's will run, for a long time, with any reasonable maintenance/cleaning regiment. Replacing a BCG (and using the probably good one as a spare) between 5000-10,000 rounds still sounds quite reasonable, fresh buffer springs around the same time also sounds fairly reasonable. Magazines that don't work good instantly become trash/training mags, and I am really amused that he went out of his way to state that every lube performed as advertised (quite germane to the Fireclean ~ Canola Oil firestorm right now). Really puts a now somewhat old Pat Rogers quote about 'Eye of Newt, CLP, Vagisil - use whatever you want, just use something as a lubricant' being really quite true.
عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
Semper Fi
"Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister
My overall takeaway is it shows how much of the consumer market place really is hype and marketing.....based on his data, a good DI system with a milspec barrel and quality bolt and mag last the longest under these circumstances.
Owner/CEO
Light Tac LLC
Owner
Mutiny Arms LLC
[QUOTE=GiddyHitch;2179863]I'm a PWS fanboy as well, so I feel your pain. As I stated earlier though, the operating conditions (full auto all the time) and failure criteria (broken or inoperable parts; key holing at 10y) do not resemble real world conditions so I take the results with a large grain of salt (because fanboy?). It does not seem like FTF and FTEs are tracked very closely based on what I've read but I think that everyone would agree that those play a large role in assessing a weapon's reliability and durability. I frankly put more trust in real world endurance tests like DMack, Todd G, and even Lucky Grunner.
Yeah the thing is that I don't even know if they have used PWS
products. He won't say. Yes I'm a fan of PWS but I'm not
gonna lose sleep about it. There are just so many variables
that go into these situations. Dmack's test as well as running
my PWS more than instills every bit of confidence in the
system. Even if they had a PWS rifle on their range, and even
say it failed in some way, you have to know how or why.
What were the circumstances? If it was just one rifle you have
to remember that it's just one rifle. EVERY single manufacturer
has had a rifle or component in thier system fail. Not one
is exempt from this. So does this mean we stop using them
all together? People just need to keep in perspective that there
are so many variables that go into these things.
Last edited by Honorthecall81; 09-17-15 at 11:13.
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.
C. S. Lewis
Yes I even own the Magpul iPhone cover. Wanna make something of it?
Yet another PWS fan, although I also have a POF and a BCM that I've been happy with. I agree that more info. is always a good thing and it's nice to hear that his AR's generally hold up so well. However, I'm not sure his criteria for a reliable firearm and mine are the same. On the one hand I put my guns through a lot less abuse - never shooting full auto or suppressed. Also, even though I shoot pretty frequently, owning multiple AR's ( plus a bunch of other guns) means that it will be years before I approach putting 10,000 rounds through a rifle.
On the other hand, since it's an indoor range, with lot's of inexperienced shooters and people shooting full auto, his criteria for accuracy is going to be a lot more forgiving than mine. I shoot a lot at 100-250 yards, with lots of sitting and prone shooting. I want my guns to be capable of at least 2-3 MOA with XM193 or its equivalent. So I suspect I'm going to be replacing my barrels long before the bullets start keyholing.
He apparently runs several short barreled PSA uppers, bought at the same time. Apparently he had one short stroking early on, but they fixed it, gas key loose if I recall correctly. And they had a bolt break at the Cam pin after approximately 20-30k rounds. He seems to feel they are on par with lmt and the like as far as parts longevity. At least, that's what I gather.
I don't think most of his data about barrel life is good for much, but parts breakage interests me quite a bit.
He mentioned that ftf and FTE are something they avoid, because otherwise it screws up the experience for the customer. They give the customer another gun and Mag if it has more than a certain number of malfunctions, (3?) no matter the number of rounds left. That gets expensive after a while.
Overall, I think it's some good data.
While his logs are not the most detailed from a rounds fired, tracking mag failures, and the like standpoint, I think that their repair records give a lot of insight into the various systems they run. Full auto and suppressed may skew the results a bit, but that grain of salt is easier to take than what most other people's data sets generate. The fact that the owner seems to be a good guy is a plus as well.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Much peace
Jimmy
Skewed for sure, but wouldn't constant full auto use and suppressed be generally harsher on the components? I would think so. In that case, it would be skewed to suggest the parts would have a shorter service life than a normal user might see.
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