Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 79

Thread: "Binary Firing System" from Franklin Armory - fire on pull AND on release

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    561
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by strambo View Post
    I don't see how it would be more dangerous than FA or burst. If you squeeze the trigger FA and need to stop you take your finger off the trigger...but did just 1 round go down range? I doubt it. I can do 2rd bursts with an MP5 but not 1. So, how is squeezing this trigger and stopping by releasing sending 2 rds downrange in a fraction of a second any less safe than squeezing a trigger on FA and stopping by releasing sending at least 2 if not many more rds down range?

    Not defending it either, I would probably never buy one, nor the last gimmick trigger, but compared to FA or burst, this seems at least as safe if not safer since it provides another option with the selector and only fires 2 with 1 trigger cycle.
    You answered your own question within the question.

    Because the trigger fires on release consider what happens during a reload or malfunction drill if the operator fails to operate the safety with their support hand before going back into battery. This is a far more complicated system than burst or FA the likes of which there is no current manual of arms this can even compare to.

    Also, the large majority of people operating FA or burst either A.) are employed by some form of MIL/LE agency and have lots of training or B.) have a ton of money and decent experience with firearms. Anyone can buy this trigger...anyone.
    Last edited by buckshot1220; 09-29-15 at 22:30.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    196
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    I'd buy it for a backyard blaster if it was less than $100. Would I put it in my HD gun; no. Take it to a public range; no. Backyard toy; sure, especially with a 22 conversion.

    If I was shooting and something obscured the range I'd point it at the dirt and manipulate the safety, that way if it discharged a round it would hit the dirt. Lowering your weapon should be the first thing you do when the range is no longer clear. It's a different manual of arms, but personal responsibility and knowing your weapon...

    I'm more worried about 80 year olds with drivers licenses than mall ninjas with these in their junkmasters

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do you even gun bro?

    Why you mad bro?

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,162
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by strambo View Post
    I don't see how it would be more dangerous than FA or burst. If you squeeze the trigger FA and need to stop you take your finger off the trigger...but did just 1 round go down range? I doubt it. I can do 2rd bursts with an MP5 but not 1. So, how is squeezing this trigger and stopping by releasing sending 2 rds downrange in a fraction of a second any less safe than squeezing a trigger on FA and stopping by releasing sending at least 2 if not many more rds down range?

    Not defending it either, I would probably never buy one, nor the last gimmick trigger, but compared to FA or burst, this seems at least as safe if not safer since it provides another option with the selector and only fires 2 with 1 trigger cycle.
    Burst is a pretty shitty design feature, no doubt. However, full auto fire is ceased exactly the same way as typical (i.e. sane) semi-auto - just releasing the trigger. This Franklin ND Contraption is completely different, and downright idiotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaterTot View Post
    I'd buy it for a backyard blaster if it was less than $100. Would I put it in my HD gun; no. Take it to a public range; no. Backyard toy; sure, especially with a 22 conversion.

    If I was shooting and something obscured the range I'd point it at the dirt and manipulate the safety, that way if it discharged a round it would hit the dirt. Lowering your weapon should be the first thing you do when the range is no longer clear. It's a different manual of arms, but personal responsibility and knowing your weapon...

    I'm more worried about 80 year olds with drivers licenses than mall ninjas with these in their junkmasters
    I wouldn't. Chances are that I, and probably a lot of people, would log as much, if not more trigger time on a backyard blaster than on an HD gun. Having 2 completely radically different methods of trigger operation to mentally navigate under stress is not something that I would want to do.
    This isn't like having triggers with different weights, or different # of stages, or fire selector position (when one owns/shoots multiple kinds of guns). AKs, ARs, FALs, HKs, etc. may have very different ergo's and manuals of arms, but they all share the universal (until the geniuses at Franklin Armory came along) trait of not firing when the trigger is released.
    Firing upon release is what happens when there is something seriously wrong with a trigger mechanism.
    These guys somehow decided to intentionally incorporate that as a design feature.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,287
    Feedback Score
    0
    When I get out of my 6 speed manual car, and get into one with an automatic transmission, the first thing I do is stomp the floor while attempting to engage the (absent) clutch. This is a product of driving the stick every day without thinking about it.

    As Benito states, this trigger has huge potential to negatively imprint. Not to mention, the MoA required to get off the trigger after sending the first round is a bad joke IMO.


    Sent from my iPhone

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    196
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    The mechanism that allows second shot to release; the disconnector releasing the hammer before the sear is in proper orientation to catch it, seems like it would create a potential for a "sweet spot" that would allow hammer follow and potentially cause FA fire, if you try to ride to reset. That might get you into some trouble.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do you even gun bro?

    Why you mad bro?

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Morgan Hill, Ca
    Posts
    5
    Feedback Score
    0
    Hey M4Carbine.net

    We hear your concerns about NDs, and if the BFS is not for you, we completely understand. There are a lot of great triggers out there. However, none of them operate like the patent pending BFS and RFS, and before you make up your mind, please allow me to address a few things.

    First, we are releasing this in partnership with LMS Defense. It is our desire to see every user attend a class to increase their safety and ability. Jason and Josh are experts in their field, and they certainly wouldn't support a half baked idea. Each firearm and trigger group will ship with incentivized opportunities to take these LMS Defense training classes, and yes, it is up to the owner/user to decide whether to attend. To further get the word out about safe BFS manipulation, we already have some videos on line demonstrating the safe operation. More videos are planned. Even this thread herein helps to promote awareness of the BFS manipulation. ....though there are some unfounded fears.

    As mentioned above, the BFS does have the ability to safely negate the release function round. I do believe that this was an important element to the viability of the BFS. No other trigger device prior to the BFS supported this function. The safest way to negate the release function round so is to use your off hand to move the selector back to "Semi." At that point it is safe to take your finger off of the trigger, and the operator will hear a click as it rests on the sear. This is a VERY safe operation that is easy to deploy and it will leave the him or her in position to reengage the target or threat if necessary.

    Someone was concerned that the firearm might fire if the selector was moved back to Binary Mode. That would be absolutely incorrect! In fact one of the BFS safety features is a lockout that prevents one from moving from Semiautomatic Mode to Binary Mode while the trigger is depressed. (The selector physically prevents that option.)

    Since double taps are one of the most common training techniques, it is interesting to point out how much MORE effective the BFS is. Essentially, you can have faster split times and tighter groups than you would otherwise have firing two shots in a typical semiautomatic trigger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TAhsoTJ6ps The newest video shows Franklin Armory staff and new users operating the BFS. It is very intuitive, and I believe it provides a clear demonstration of how most people would operate the firearm.

    We will have more videos on the RFS coming out soon. However, the only difference between that and the BFS is that the third position is only a release fire mode. It too shares the same safety features as the BFS. To articulate the RFS, one would move the selector to third position (Release Mode,) pull the trigger back (while hearing an audible click,) and then release the trigger to fire. If the shot had to be canceled due to a rampaging daycare jailbreak, the off hand can be employed to safely move the selector to semi or all the way to safe just as with the BFS.

    Both the BFS and RFS will be clearly identified with brightly colored labels on the selector demonstrating their mechanical operation. Some people might object to the labels, but it is important to clearly label the firearm.

    In the final analysis, this trigger is not for everyone, but in no way is it a gimmick or a toy. Accidents happen with typical semiautomatic triggers, but the principles are the same. Among them, keep your finger away from the trigger unless you are ready to shoot, and always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. When you finally get a chance to try the BFS or RFS, I don't think it will be as counter-intuitive as some of you have claimed. First hand experience will provide an informed opinion. All I ask is that you try it out before you pass judgement.

    Take care and be safe.

    Jay Jacobson
    President
    Franklin Armory

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    North TX
    Posts
    1,457
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    I'll try it out. PM you my shipping info?

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    196
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leaveammoforme View Post
    I'll try it out. PM you my shipping info?
    Ditto

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    1,826
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Jay, As fun as it would be to do a mag dump with one of your triggers, it's not for me. That said, hats off to you for making your product available to some of the forum members for testing. I'm interested in reading their reports.
    “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    If you don't want to send excessive rounds downrange, what is the point of full auto in the first place? What this point of a belt fed machinegun?

    I fail to see the argument about how dangerous letting the second round downrange.

    This thing is just a two shot burst mode.

    I think some of the issues about this thing firing out of battery or hammer following the BCG into battery are overblown.
    Last edited by scottryan; 09-30-15 at 22:37.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •