Hey, it happens that the Kel-Tec RDB is actually a quite nice gun.

[bigfeetz]

Actually, the complete opposite is true.

It caused a lot of problems, and was one of the first revisions made when designing the X95:



Anyone can look at it and see it's a stupid design.



The main issue I see is the fact that it's two clam shells held together by a big heaping handful of screws.

Is there a reason why?
Does detailed stripping involve pulling them all?
Does the grip store extras for when they start falling out?

I've never owned any Keltec, but when I was a kid I had a waterpistol that I ran really hard, and it lost one or two... and the water pistol appears better made than any Keltec.

I wonder if George Kelgren ever worked for Entertec?

Ok, hundreds of thousands of Tavors later, they still have the same mag release. I didnt find the mag release on the Tavor a hindrance at all. The majority of the complaints about the mag release on the Tavor were made by people who had never even laid hands on it. Seems like the Kel Tec will endure the same damnation X5.

If you have watched the Vids on the RDB you have seen that a complete field strip down to base components save trigger removal and the gasblock requires not a single tool. As far as the screws falling out.....hasnt happened with the KSG or the RFB or any of the multitude of weapons they sell with similar contruction . Metal screws into metal with metal shoulders making contact with Polymer.

Anyone looking at will think it is stupid? I am sure some will, some won't. Seems like you are ideologically opposed to this weapon and it will suck in your opinion no matter how it performs and that is your right. Ill wait to pass judgement ...after a thousand rounds I''l let you know the good bad and ugly

[Shao]

They were just released about a week ago. The ones tested by various people were prototypes and they have performed very well so far after thousandsof rounds. Perhaps you have this confused with another Keltec product?

Whoa, my bad. For some reason my brain read the thread title as RFB... I have no experience with the RDB. I stand corrected.

[KalashniKEV]

The problems with the Tavor are so bad that IWI is still making the rifle with the same magazine release and they're still selling it to a variety of international customers.

LOL... look at who they're fighting.

IMI could issue a compound bow and they'd still slaughter a bunch of kids with slingshots and widows with kitchen knives.

X95 addressed the flaws. is it your assertion that the mag release was not a major design flaw??

If you have watched the Vids on the RDB you have seen that a complete field strip down to base components save trigger removal and the gasblock requires not a single tool.

Field strip... detail strip... guns... do you know it?

[MountainRaven]

LOL... look at who they're fighting.

IMI could issue a compound bow and they'd still slaughter a bunch of kids with slingshots and widows with kitchen knives.

X95 addressed the flaws. is it your assertion that the mag release was not a major design flaw??

If by, "flaw," you mean, "less than perfect," or, "sub-optimal," then, yes, the Tavor is a flawed rifle. It's not as fast to use as an AR-15 with drop-free magazines nor as easy to use one-handed by a right-handed shooter - and not all AR-15s drop all magazines freely. But it is easily accessible for either a right or left handed shooter, is easily operated, and positive in function.

As for the people using Tavors to shoot other people in the face... yeah, I'm sure that the Ukrainians would be slaughtering numerically and technologically superior Bolsheviks left and right, even with sharp sticks.



Have you had a magazine drop from a Tavor unexpectedly? Do you know anyone who has? Are you just saying what you're saying because you don't like the shape, you don't like having to use two hands, you don't like that split times for reloading a Tavor are slower than they are for an AR? You've got enough H&Ks and other H&K-pattern rollerlocks that I think you'd find the Tavor to be fantastically fast by comparison.

Even if you have personal observation suggesting that accidentally dumping mags on the deck is an issue with the Tavor... I remind you that it is also an issue with the AR-15 - itself a supremely flawed weapon - as I have personally experienced (and verified that it was gun bumping into kit causing the issue, not operator headspace error).

[bigfeetz]

LOL... look at who they're fighting.

IMI could issue a compound bow and they'd still slaughter a bunch of kids with slingshots and widows with kitchen knives.

X95 addressed the flaws. is it your assertion that the mag release was not a major design flaw??



Field strip... detail strip... guns... do you know it?

Field strip vs Detail strip.... the gas block and trigger removal that makes it or breaks it huh? Objectivity , you know it? Ca n you Detail strip a. AR with no tools?

As far as mag release problems go , I have personally had mags drop from my issue M4A1 from anything from heavy brush or bouncing off shit while running, dIdn't have to read abut it or assume. Does that make the AR suck over all?

Like I said , instead of proclaiming to know things I can't possibly know, I will test out the weapon to assess it's weak points and/or confirm its strong points.

[KalashniKEV]

You've got enough H&Ks and other H&K-pattern rollerlocks... I remind you that it is also an issue with the AR-15...

That large, protruding, rearward actuating dingus is a lot easier to hit than a protected button or a forward actuating paddle- that isn't in your armpit.

Field strip vs Detail strip.... Ca n you Detail strip a. AR with no tools?

Sorry if I made that sound like a semantic argument... my point was- what's the purpose of all those screws??

Damn... there must be over 20 on each side!

Are they all the same size? Where are the extras?

Why the clamshell design? It just seems really junky.

[bigfeetz]

That large, protruding, rearward actuating dingus is a lot easier to hit than a protected button or a forward actuating paddle- that isn't in your armpit.



Sorry if I made that sound like a semantic argument... my point was- what's the purpose of all those screws??

Damn... there must be over 20 on each side!

Are they all the same size? Where are the extras?

Why the clamshell design? It just seems really junky.

I wish KelTec had opted for a one-piece construction design but I would attribute the two piece approach to molding costs. It would take a much larger mold with a much more complicated ejection system to make a one piece reciever, not to mention a larger plastic injection molding press to utilize the much larger mold.

I agree that the fasteners all over the rifle lend a less developed "solid" look to the weapon but if they prove to be durable recievers, I could easily overlook the bolted-together look.

I am going to pick up my RDB today, I'll throw it around a bit before mounting optics.... see if it starts to rattle. What concerns me more than anything is not being able to get any info of thE construction of the barrel. Steel type, is it chrome lined?... etc....

[caporider]

Sorry if I made that sound like a semantic argument... my point was- what's the purpose of all those screws??

Damn... there must be over 20 on each side!

Are they all the same size? Where are the extras?

Why the clamshell design? It just seems really junky.

A $8,000 AI-AX has screws all over it, but it's not necessary to remove all those screws to strip and clean the rifle. As long as the screws are properly secured, I don't see this as a huge problem. I do wish, however, that Kel-Tec would have found a way to capture the takedown pins.

[bigfeetz]

I just got the RDB home. I did a function check with Brownells, Colt, DSG metal mags and Pmags, Lancer mags, all functioned well and worked with LRBHO and with the Bolt Release button. The mag release is a bit stiff, I don't see accidental mag drops happening at all. I can hit the mag release without removing my full grip from the pistol grip or finger from the trigger guard, just an upward cant of my wrist and extend my thumb up and the mags drop free..... mag changes are going to be damn near"AR quick" once I get the muscle memory down. The trigger is nice and crisp, predictable... easily the best bullpup trigger I have felt on any bullpup, about as good as an ALG QMS trigger with JP springs. This bullpup is lighter and slightly shorter than my 10.5 CQBR sbr with a fully collapsed stock. Its build feels very solid and robust, no frail or delicate feel to it at all despite its light weight.

The barrel is a 1/9 twist but I am not sweating it, with an 18" barrel it won't be dependent on 77-grain ammo to be effective at any range 5.56 is effective at and since I am not locked into FMJ...even 50 grain AMAX is going to be nasty . The barrel seems to be the equivalent of a pencil barrel and it is not chrome lined... but it is nitride finish and it has a smooth looking bore. I cant wait to fire the pup up.

I cant fire check it today but when Wednesday comes around I'll dump about 250 to 500 rounds suppressed and unsuppressed right out of the box. If this little bullpup fires as good as it feels it is easily going to be my favorite long gun and my SBR's are going to be collecting dust, well at least until the novelty wears off.

[notorious_ar15]

The problem I have with the release is:
2) Will it snag gear and dump the mag standing around at the low ready? (YES)

Haven't heard any complaints from the testers about this problem , where did you hear about this?

There is a shakedown test / review on youtube I saw where that particular problem crops up with the new Keltec RDB.

The Tavor's mag release lever appears to be smaller, and also the gap between it and the pistol grip (hand) are larger on the Tavor - both of which look to mitigate the (potential) issue of the magazine being accidentally released.