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Thread: .22lr conversions and carbine classes?

  1. #1
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    .22lr conversions and carbine classes?

    With ammo prices where they are, I can't afford the ammo requirements to participate in classes anymore(not that I trained as much as I should have before.)

    What's the consensus on taking a few classes running a .22lr upper? Clearly it's not a total substitute for shooting full power rifle rounds, but is it a viable way to get trigger time with a good instructor provided it's a reliable upper? Would most trainers be open to it?

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    You'd get plenty of malfunction clearance practice

    My CMMG conversion kit w/BDM magazine has the bolt hold-open feature, but once you drop the magazine the bolt rides forward; you have to use the charging handle when you reload. I wonder how quickly I'd fall out of the habit of hitting the ping-pong paddle to charge the weapon upon reload after a 2-3 day class with the .22lr conversion...

    You'll also have to factor in extra time to clean the conversion kit during the day. I can go ~300 rounds in my 6920 before things get sluggish and the malfunction rate goes up.

  3. #3
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    My 22lr. goes 300 rounds before choking too.... Understand the slightly different manipulations required...but versus not taking a class at all I'm thinking it will be worth it.

    Think I'll start paying closer attention to when a class is coming to TX and then give them a call and ask.

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    I have thought about that as well, and since my Ceiner kit is not nearly as reliable as I would like it to be, my conclusion is that I do the course with normal ammunition, and then use the .22 conversion to sustain those skills.

    There might be some drills that would be easy to do throughout the course, but I would not want to be "that guy" with stoppages, etc that are often associated with the .22 kits.

    Just my thoughts.

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    Agree with what Billpete said. Get through the class with "real" ammo and then switch to the .22 for sustainment training, keeping in mind what skills do and do not carryover.

    For example, when running the .22 I'd always keep the rifle topped up, and never perform a bolt-open reload. If you want to to work on reloads, go back to the big bullets.

  6. #6
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    .22s

    The problem is that .22s are not extremely reliable.

    At a class, you want the gun to run 100%.

    It allows you to focus on what you're learning.

    It gives you confidence that your gear works under all conditions.

    It doesn't slow down the class and interrupt not only your learning, but that of others (who all paid a lot of money, took time off from work, and will get frustrated with you for slowing down the class repeatedly).



    I look at it like this: at a class, I might fire 1,000 rounds. During a year of sustainment training, I fire about 6,000 rounds.

    Using a .22 conversion for most of my sustainment training allows me to afford to use 5.56 or .223 ammo at a class, or occaisionally for sustainment training.

  7. #7
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    I recently purchased a Ceiner .22LR Conversion kit and a half-dozen DBM magazines for this same reason (ammo cost) as well as the ability to practice in an indoors range. We cannot shoot at the outdoor ranges once the sun sets and during the Fall and Winter months, that's pretty early.

    What I've found out is that you can only do so much training and practice with a .22LR conversion kit even with BDM magazines. IMHO, it is not a complete substitute to shooting with real ammo and real magazines. The recoil alone is very different and you can be a little sloppier with your stance and get away with it.

    But using a .2LR conversion kit does allow you to get some quality trigger time as long as you structure your range sessions accordingly. What I mean is if you practice skills and techniques that do not take advantage of the reduced recoil and are not affected by the mechanical differences (ie: bolt lock back feature), then it is a viable substitute.

    What I have done so far with my kit is practice engaging multiple targets, low-light and no-light shooting, shooting on the move, shooting from behind barriers, and failure drills. While I do not have the same flash, noise, and recoil as when firing a .223/5.56 round, at least I do get to practice skills that I cannot always practice in an outdoor range. YMMV.
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    There is also nothing wrong with going dry on drills that you would have used the reduced recoil .22lr for. I know... maybe not as fun, but the better I get with my shooting, the more I go dry.

    I didn't get this mindset from dreaming though... Paul Howe and Scotty Rietz both changed my mind about the need for dry runs... with the caveat to definately run hot in order to keep your recoil management under full control. Heck, Scotty even told me he generally runs 50 rounds a month through his pistol and goes dry during the rest of his self-practice.

    That being said... I seriously question my need for my .22LR conversion kits for both my AR and Glock. I find myself increasingly going dry for my single shot drills and going hot for my multiple shot drills.

    At this point in my training I would not feel odd for going dry in paid classes during single shot drills (unless scored) in order to train more.

    Tim.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    For example, when running the .22 I'd always keep the rifle topped up, and never perform a bolt-open reload. If you want to to work on reloads, go back to the big bullets.
    Which upper/conversion did you decide to use?
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

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  10. #10
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    Yup... big bullets for class....22's for sustainment/practice.

    You can do a lot of shooting on the move with a brick of .22's....
    and mag drills....

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