Any advantage to having both OTM and BB rounds available?

[moonshot]

I've posted this question in an earlier thread, and while it was "kind of" answered, I still have questions. I have begun to phase in barrier blind rounds to augment my supply of OTM rounds, but I have not yet decided what the mix will be between the two.

My understanding of the two types of rounds (OTM and BB), summed up very simply, is that the OTM may be a bit more accurate at long range and may offer better terminal performance if used within that specific rounds fragmentation range and against targets not protected by hard barriers, while BB rounds offer better performance through hard barriers such as auto glass and steel, making BB rounds far superior to OTM rounds for LE use in and around cars.

As far as general self-defense rounds in and around the home go, I have seen arguments for both. The OTM posses less down range risk if it passes through an interrior wall while the BB rounds offers better performance if the bad guy is shooting at you from behind something like heavy furniture or a door frame (would these kinds of bariers defeat an OTM?).

I realize the above is a very simplistic review, and it does not address some of the finer points of either round. My question (and I realize the answer is opinion, not definitive fact) - does it make any sense to keep both rounds available for immediate use (for example: your in-gun magazine is filled with BB rounds, while your two spare mags have BBs in one and OTMs in the other), or have BB rounds so supplanted OTMs that OTMs are better left as second tier rounds - to be used only when all your BB rounds are depleted?

If the former, what is the scenario where the OTM would be your first choice? If the latter, I'll try selling my OTMs and spend the proceeds on a few more BB rounds and more training.

[daniel87]

First and formost what is the mission and range of the target or is this like a general purpose rifle/ammo for un sure.

What caliber

Are you urban or rural

What is your visual max range from say your house

What do you forsee happening in the near future to need ammo (zombie vs hurricane looters)

Are you seeing more barriers between the target or more soft targets, ex: open field l, forrest, suburban, or urban

Personally for were i live id rather have say 4-5 mags of regular match hunting rounds, and a couple mags of bb
Ps this is for either my 308win project or my current 300 blk pistol.

For my 300 blk
What i have is
2 30 rd subsonic
1 60 rd sub,
2 30 rd mags hdy 110 super
1 20 rd barnes tac tx 110 super


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[ColtSeavers]

There is no such thing as guaranteed one shot stop ammo.

Where do you live? City? Suburbs damn near in a City? Suburbs on the edge of a City? Suburbs in the Sticks? Nearest neighbor would never hear the gunfire or subsequent use of treebranch mulcher? Martian sagebrush/tumbleweed landscape or thick vegetation/trees?

What do you shoot most often? Do you hunt and shoot moderate groups at moderate ranges for fun? Do you shoot itty bitty little groups and shoot out to 800yards all the time? Do you have a secret stockpile of m855 that is what you'll actually be using or shooting most often?

My point is, as I alluded to first and foremost, that there is no guaranteed one shot stop ammunition, and while it is perfectly admirable if not preferable to try and hedge your chances as best as possible, I would not go brake the bank to stockpile ammo that I do not intend to use outside of a specific scenario like home invasion, zombie apocalypse, or the ever dreadful armor plated zombies using auto glass as riot shields performing home invasions.

For the record, I have 2 remaining boxes of Federal Fusion that I bought a long time ago based on it's performance. 1 box is loaded in a 20rd magazine that currently does nothing but sit and wait for the armor plated auto glass shield wielding zombie home invaders. All the rest of my .223/5.56 ammo is either PMC X-Tac m855 clone or a long range round because of where I live and what/how I shoot with my .223/5.56 ARs.

Also consider what your ARs are zeroed for based on all that.

I have no fear of being let down by either type of ammo as putting multiple rounds on target is the name of the game.

[Molon]

All the rest of my .223/5.56 ammo is either PMC X-Tac m855 clone or a long range round . . .


I have no fear of being let down by either type of ammo as putting multiple rounds on target is the name of the game.

You presume that an attacker, or multiple attackers, are all going to just stand still out in the open, squarely facing you with their arms at their sides and allow you to put “multiple rounds on target” until they go down, all while not shooting back at you.



....

[ColtSeavers]

You presume that an attacker, or multiple attackers, are all going to just stand still out in the open, squarely facing you with their arms at their sides and allow you to put “multiple rounds on target” until they go down, all while not shooting back at you.



....

I don't really know how to reply to this. I made and make no such assumptions. I base my ammo stockpile choices on how and what I shoot. I suggested doing the same, while also admitting to a small stash of just in case specific scenario ammo.

Based on everything that I have read on the topic, I am under the impression that while OTM and/or mk318 ammo is not the most ideal ammo anymore, it is still no less very effective.

Due to budget, I have to make choices on what ammo I buy (as I'm sure many others do as well of course), and based on where I live, what I shoot, the type of shooting I do and the ballistics data I've poured over over the years, between Bonded bullets and OTM/mk318 clones, I still have no fear of using OTM/mk318 clones.



ETA: Crap, I think I missed your point? No, I do not advocate using M855fmj as first line anything ammo. I just happen to find it to be pretty accurate, better quality than American Eagle and disgustingly cheap family fodder fun.

[Molon]

ETA: Crap, I think I missed your point? No, I do not advocate using M855fmj as first line anything ammo.

......

[moonshot]

I have a 16" upper with a true 5.56 chamber, but most of my ammo is .223 (it's cheaper and easier to get). I am not looking at any specific tactical situation, nor am I trying to stockpile a lot of ammo. I wish I could afford to, but I cannot. Most of my defense-related spending is on training.

As DocGKR said...

Only after proper foundational and ongoing repetitive refresher training, cultivating warrior mind-set, and ensuring weapon system reliability do you need to worry about ammunition selection. Most folks would be far better off practicing with what they have, rather than worrying about what is "best". As long as you know your what your weapon and ammo can realistically accomplish, it is all just a matter of training and shot placement. I would much rather go into battle with a guy who practices 15,000 rounds a year using generic 55 gr FMJ out of his old M16A1 than with some guy that has the latest state-of-the-art ammo and rifle, but only shoots 500 rounds a year.

I cannot afford to practice 15,000 rounds per year, not by a long shot, but I believe in the above statement, and I aspire to be that skilled.

So my original question remains...

I now have a small stash of both OTM and BB loads. Is there any tactical reason to load my goto magazines with both types of ammo, or is the recommendation to load up with BB only, leaving the OTMs for a rainy day?

If they fill a tactical nitch I'll keep them and load some up. Even if they are no longer a 1st choice, they didn't suddenly all turn into wiffle balls, but I know I can use more training, and if all they do is fill empty mags when everything else is gone, it may make more sense for me to sell them and use the proceeds to try and become a better shooter.

[ColtSeavers]

I have a 16" upper with a true 5.56 chamber, but most of my ammo is .223 (it's cheaper and easier to get). I am not looking at any specific tactical situation, nor am I trying to stockpile a lot of ammo. I wish I could afford to, but I cannot. Most of my defense-related spending is on training.

As DocGKR said...



I cannot afford to practice 15,000 rounds per year, not by a long shot, but I believe in the above statement, and I aspire to be that skilled.

So my original question remains...

I now have a small stash of both OTM and BB loads. Is there any tactical reason to load my goto magazines with both types of ammo, or is the recommendation to load up with BB only, leaving the OTMs for a rainy day?

If they fill a tactical nitch I'll keep them and load some up. Even if they are no longer a 1st choice, they didn't suddenly all turn into wiffle balls, but I know I can use more training, and if all they do is fill empty mags when everything else is gone, it may make more sense for me to sell them and use the proceeds to try and become a better shooter.

What type of shooting do you do most often? What type of shooting do you want to do?


**WARNING! GENERALIZED STATEMENT FOLLOWS!**

Little itty bitty groups/long ranges? OTM
General shooting/hunting? Bonded

I'd save whatever type you don't use/plan on using for a rainy day when you feel like shooting something different.

[ScottsBad]

I'll take a small stab at this. As your first line GoTo ammo, BB ammo and a heavier match round seem like a good way to go. I live in the burbs, I don't keep any barrier blind ammo loaded up (except m855 for light barriers). Any unexpected visitors will be at close range like home invasion close or back yard close. There are various special rounds for this environment, but I just keep the Mk262 and M855 loaded. Mk262 is my GoTo. This may not be optimal by many folks account, but I don't like have multiple types of ammo so that I don't have to worry about the shift POI with each type.

Like many I cannot afford to keep all premium ammo, so I have to compromise if I want to stockpile. So I keep about 1000-1500 rounds of Mk262, 17K M855, 4k of M193 plinking ammo. So I set up my zero with Mk262, then practice with M855 so I know it's POI. That way I only have to worry about two main types.

I think everyone has different ideas about what they hope to achieve, what they can afford, etc. So answering your question is a bit difficult. I'm in California and we have to worry about what kind of asinine legislation is coming next. Ammo is a big target right now. They are pushing a law to register ammo buyers and track who buys what. If this comes to pass ammo will become very expensive, and we will not be able to buy mail order. So I have to stockpile.

BTW for longer shots and car windows I depend on .308 semi-auto.