So the bolt tail is the piston and the bolt face is the op rod? Or is the cam pin the op rod since it is what causes the bolt to push outward causing carrier to move backwards?
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So the bolt tail is the piston and the bolt face is the op rod? Or is the cam pin the op rod since it is what causes the bolt to push outward causing carrier to move backwards?
So now we're making up our own definitions? Well, crap, then I'm going to redefine a suppressor as a muzzle brake. I'm sure the judge will understand that it's all just a matter of semantics, right? We don't get to just go making up our own definitions. It's like I've already said, this way too freaking philosophical for my taste. The terminology is there, everyone understands it, it's been working perfectly for fifty freaking years. I cannot believe that one self contradicting wikipedia article has caused all this havoc.
Oh, and the universally accepted definition is one sentence. Your definition would require a whole book and a several courses in physics to understand. Can you imagine the confusion that would ensue?
Last edited by HansTheHobbit; 10-22-15 at 17:59.
Which is my point... the term blowback is used for non-locked breech pistols. Yet the blowback force is identical on the other designs like short stroke recoil operation. So it's not accurate in that regard. Would be better to just call it inertia breech vs locked breech or something.
One a different note: is this rifle gas operated with a piston? Or direct impingement?
1Mvc-002f.jpg
Awfully close to the DI examples (Ljungman, Hakim). But usually described as gas operated.
I do believe it's closer to a stationary piston due to it's tighter tolerances.
So yours is "Any system where gas is piped into the bolt carrier"?
I'm not redefining impingement in my description, and it's not dependent on historical analogies. I could hand a mechanical engineer the definition and several rifles, and they could accurately apply it to categorize them. As could most physicists.
So by your definition the Mini-14 is a direct impingement system. (I do think it's probably a hybrid, but leaning toward a piston approach)
Direct - adv - with no one or nothing in between.
Impingement - v - to strike or dash especially with a sharp collision.
Gas - n - an airlike fluid substance which expands freely to fill any space available, irrespective of its quantity.
System - n - a group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose
Therefore, 'direct gas impingement system' should mean: " a mechanism that derives work [system] through the action of a gas hitting a surface [impinging] without any other additions [direct]."
His definition is right on, as #2 and #3 just reiterate the "without any other addition" bit....
A Direct Impingement operating system would be one where the following conditions are present:
1) The majority of the force used to operate the system was due to the jet of gas in line with the desired operating motion impacting a surface
2) Any force generated due to expansive or increasing volume of gas is secondary (smaller) than the impingement force
3) The interface between the gas tube and impingement surface is not capable of sustaining pressure and is essentially an open interface not dependent on rings or small tolerances
Well, there's the rub...
There are many ways to classify operating systems, within the gas operated group there are the "direct gas action" grouping, in that the gas is directly used to lock or unlock the bolt without any intermediate parts. One of the latest was an H&K pistol that ported gas into the slide and held the slide forward until the gas pressure dropped off and some other means could extract and cycle the action. Another, was a experimental cannon that had a high helix screw-type locking bolt that would unscrew under chamber pressure, but gas was ported to act on one side of the lugs and hold them in the locked position until the gas pressure dropped off and the thing unscrewed itself to unlock.
And, there are many recoil operated guns that use residual chamber pressure (ie the case as a piston) to actually keep the bolt going rearward....
And that thing is a piston, it has gas sealing grooves, so it is obvious that the designer intended to use trapped expanding gas to move a cylinder.
Guys, stop reporting posts to this thread. It intentionally exists as a place to safely contain the discussion away from other productive threads.
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