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Thread: Dumb question, why don't more people build form 1 suppressors?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno12 View Post
    So you can build it first & once it's completed, then process the paperwork?
    .
    Nope. You have it wrong way 'round. Paper, then build.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno12 View Post
    So you can build it first & once it's completed, then process the paperwork?

    I have access to presses, lathes, mills, and drill presses, so I really want to F1 one.
    NO!!!! Don't go building anything prior to Form 1 approval and tax stamp.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    Nope. You have it wrong way 'round. Paper, then build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benito View Post
    NO!!!! Don't go building anything prior to Form 1 approval and tax stamp.
    That's what I thought but the guy I quoted made it sound like it you could build then F1.

    Thanks for clarifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

  4. #24
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    You must have an approved form one before you even begin gathering the parts. I've done with the ATF on behalf of a client who ordered the parts first. Ended up having to surrender them to the ATF as it is illegal to possess silencer parts.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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    www.AtomicLabRat.com

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno12 View Post
    That's what I thought but the guy I quoted made it sound like it you could build then F1.

    Thanks for clarifying.
    No, he didn't. He said that was the benefit of being a manufacturer (who would file a Form 2 after manufacturing the item).

    When you file a Form 1, you're a maker, hence the title of the form. Completely different set of rules/taxes/licenses/fees/forms between a maker and a manufacturer.

    Lots of people incorrectly say they manufacture SBRs/suppressors/etc, and we know what they mean...but it's not the same in the eyes of the ATF.
    Last edited by BigWaylon; 10-27-15 at 22:43.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWaylon View Post
    No, he didn't. He said that was the benefit of being a manufacturer.

    When you file a Form 1, you're a maker, hence the title of the form. Completely different set of rules/taxes/licenses/fees between a maker and a manufacturer.
    Thanks. I misunderstood him then.

    Is there a certain step that you can't legally go beyond before the F1 is approved or can you not start any assembly until then?
    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

  7. #27
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    So where are you guys getting the "how to" and "parts"? I had occasionally thought of this but then you see something nicely made for $200 with lifetime warranty, it seems like it just wouldn't be worth it.... if you had to buy any major tools anyway.

  8. #28
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    I work/own a machine shop and we have CNC's, laser clad welders, water jets, gas laser cutter and just about everything else under the sun. I was approached a year or so ago by an engineer to build a suppressor for a Lahti 20mm he had designed using Autodesk 3ds max and Inventor Pro, his material list consisted of Tantalum, Titanium 11, stainless steel 17-7 which had to be laser clad then ground and honed to +.0005, laser welded then ceramax plated. Just the raw materials were $11,000. I think anyone can build a can using parts available at any hardware store or industrial supplier using a 110a mig or tig Lincoln welders, but I do think there is a science and an art to building something quality that can last 1000's of rounds without malfunction and reduce the decibel 30-40 points. Ive taken apart my Saker and Socom and to me, there pretty complex,- and that's coming from a guy who makes really intricate components. The baffles are made using a process of cnc's and 3d laser cutter just for removing material and then they have to be formed and given shape. Not to mention an adapter to mount to your flash hider. Its a neat idea worth looking into and turning it into a reality-legally.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWaylon View Post
    No, he didn't. He said that was the benefit of being a manufacturer (who would file a Form 2 after manufacturing the item).

    When you file a Form 1, you're a maker, hence the title of the form. Completely different set of rules/taxes/licenses/fees/forms between a maker and a manufacturer.

    Lots of people incorrectly say they manufacture SBRs/suppressors/etc, and we know what they mean...but it's not the same in the eyes of the ATF.
    Yep. BW has it 100% correct. In terms of federal law there is a BIG damn difference between a manufacturer and a maker.

    In order to be a manufacturer of suppressors requires a Type 07 FFL and payment of $1000/$500 per year Class 02 SOT along with other appropriate excise taxes, registration with the State Department for ITAR purposes and that's just the major stuff. The major requirements have been enough to dissuade me from even investigating the minor requirements.

    Being a maker just requires filing the Form 1 and paying the $200 tax. The downside is that approved F1 and $200 only entitles you to make 1 of whatever it is. Once it's built and fired, it's done. No modifications, no baffle experiments, nothing like that because to do so would require extra suppressor parts that are not legal to have without ANOTHER approved F1 and $200 tax.

    Moral of the story, if you're going to F1 a suppressor, put more time into the design than you do the build so you get something that works well. Leverage off what other people have done as well, because honestly, there's only so many ways to skin that cat. The design work is all in making your tradeoffs between internal volume (and thus size/weight), baffle design, number and ordering.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    So where are you guys getting the "how to" and "parts"? I had occasionally thought of this but then you see something nicely made for $200 with lifetime warranty, it seems like it just wouldn't be worth it.... if you had to buy any major tools anyway.
    For my first I bought my tube and end caps as a "solvent trap" (no hole in the end cap). SDT also has forums with a lot of good info on making baffles from common items.

    http://www.sdtacticalarms.com/

    They've got an agreement with a local machine shop where you can get the engraving done before it's shipped to you as well.

    So when it came in to me, I had a "solvent trap" with all the appropriate ATF engraving on it. I then filed my F1 and designed while I waited on F1 approval.

    Now that my F1 is approved I can build it out, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Been setting up my garage workshop with the lathe, mill, etc etc...

    I'm planning on doing a 2nd one at some point for my 300BO that I want to do from the ground up. Thread the tube, ends caps, everything....

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