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Thread: DBAL-A3 vs. Atpial C

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    DBAL-A3 vs. Atpial C

    Hey Guys,

    Getting ready to start NV Equiping my Carbine, I have the PVS 14, Norotos NV Mount, and Ops COre Fast maritime. Now its time to buy the laser/illuminator. I have been looking at both the DBAL-A3 and the L3 Atpial-c. Both seem to be relatively the same price so I wondering which would be the better option. Its going on my primary rifle which I use for teaching classes ( Firearms Instructor ) in addition to that it is my HD rifle. the laser is going to be paired with a surefire scout light. I just cant seem to find the main difference other than housing style, mount type, etc.

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    I dont have time with the DBAL, but I'm running the Atpial on my Scar and have been very happy with its performance. It sits alittle lower on the rail, which was a consideration for me as I have it mounted at 12 o'clock on a PWS rail extender..I do believe the newer DBAL's can be had with a green laser, the Atpial only red. This wasnt a big deal to me, but if you plan on running a visible laser alot green is much more visible...
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    I spent a pretty decent portion of my adult life seeing green, and I would look to the IR illuminator to make my decision. The aiming laser is cool and all, but the IR flood is what allows target ID and awareness of your shooting environment...a big concern for home defense or teaching end users.

    I have a PEQ-15, LA-5, and an ATPIAL-C and while the laser is decent the civilian version's non-adjustable illuminator is borderline useless. Compared to the real thing ( I prefer the UHP LA-5), the C model is a Prius engine in a muscle car body.

    I agree that the form factor of the ATPIAL is more favorable than their LDI counterparts, but the civilian DBALs have an adjustable IR illuminator which put it ahead for me.

    You can augment the laser with a Surefire V-series light and get by, but it's not as ideal as having adequate IR illum on the laser unit. In addition, you lose the ability to immediately have white light if your I2 gest washed out or becomes impractical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Guru View Post
    I spent a pretty decent portion of my adult life seeing green, and I would look to the IR illuminator to make my decision. The aiming laser is cool and all, but the IR flood is what allows target ID and awareness of your shooting environment...a big concern for home defense or teaching end users.

    I have a PEQ-15, LA-5, and an ATPIAL-C and while the laser is decent the civilian version's non-adjustable illuminator is borderline useless. Compared to the real thing ( I prefer the UHP LA-5), the C model is a Prius engine in a muscle car body.

    I agree that the form factor of the ATPIAL is more favorable than their LDI counterparts, but the civilian DBALs have an adjustable IR illuminator which put it ahead for me.

    You can augment the laser with a Surefire V-series light and get by, but it's not as ideal as having adequate IR illum on the laser unit. In addition, you lose the ability to immediately have white light if your I2 gest washed out or becomes impractical.
    I'd say that it all depends on the intended use. The laser IR illuminator on the ATPIAL is fine out to about 50-75 yards when using my PVS-14. This is more than adequate for house clearing and the combination of light weight and low profile make it my first choice for home defense.

    On the other hand, the DBAL-D2 uses a LED IR illuminator that throws a beam out to 500+ meters. However, there are a couple of issues with come with this form of illumination. First, the LED illuminator puts out a faint visible glow that can be seen with the naked eye when directly in front of the unit. This is something to consider for home defense use where your target may get to shoot back. Second, the amplification ability of the PVS-14 become the limiting gear in very dark conditions with an IR illuminator - about 150-200 meters depending on the amount of ambient background light. You need a PVS-22/24/27 to take full advantage of the DBAL-D2's LED illumination beyond 200 meters. That will set you back about $14K. Third, the DBAL-D2 is heavier. Finally, the ATPIAL's precursor has a little bit better track record in terms of durability in some circles, but I think that the current production is solid for both units.

    In summary, I Use my ATPIAL on a 10" SBR SCAR home defense gun. The DBAL-D2 sits on my MK12 build...different tools for different uses.
    Last edited by Sensei; 10-27-15 at 12:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I'd say that it all depends on the intended use. The laser IR illuminator on the ATPIAL is fine out to about 50-75 yards when using my PVS-14. This is more than adequate for house clearing and the combination of light weight and low profile make it my first choice for home defense.

    On the other hand, the DBAL-D2 uses a LED IR illuminator that throws a beam out to 500+ meters. However, there are a couple of issues with come with this form of illumination. First, the LED illuminator puts out a faint visible glow that can be seen with the naked eye when directly in front of the unit. This is something to consider for home defense use where your target may get to shoot back. Second, the amplification ability of the PVS-14 become the limiting gear in very dark conditions with an IR illuminator - about 150-200 meters depending on the amount of ambient background light. You need a PVS-22/24/27 to take full advantage of the DBAL-D2's LED illumination beyond 200 meters. That will set you back about $14K. Third, the DBAL-D2 is heavier. Finally, the ATPIAL's precursor has a little bit better track record in terms of durability in some circles, but I think that the current production is solid for both units.

    In summary, I Use my ATPIAL on a 10" SBR SCAR home defense gun. The DBAL-D2 sits on my MK12 build...different tools for different uses.
    The DBAL-A3 utilizes a laser-based illuminator that is adjustable and focusable, with essentially the same form factor as the DBAL-I2. Bonus is that it's also cheaper than the DBAL-D2 and APTIAL-C. There is also the manual override port for the visible laser that one can use in conjunction with a Steiner white light, so that you have one pressure pad for the IR stuff, and one pressure pad that will simultaneously turn on both the visible laser and the white light; I suspect the Unity/TNVC TAPS will also allow for that functionality, but with Surefire lights, too.

    Given the many additional features the DBAL-A3 has over the APTIAL-C (green laser, superior IR illumination solution, visible override port, cheaper, ), I think the DBAL is the clear winner on paper. If you're absolutely sure you've no need for a visible laser, consider the DBAL-I2 single spectrum, which has an adjustable and focusable laser-based IR illuminator and an IR laser, at less than 800 USD on TNVC.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    The DBAL-A3 utilizes a laser-based illuminator that is adjustable and focusable, with essentially the same form factor as the DBAL-I2. Bonus is that it's also cheaper than the DBAL-D2 and APTIAL-C. There is also the manual override port for the visible laser that one can use in conjunction with a Steiner white light, so that you have one pressure pad for the IR stuff, and one pressure pad that will simultaneously turn on both the visible laser and the white light; I suspect the Unity/TNVC TAPS will also allow for that functionality, but with Surefire lights, too.

    Given the many additional features the DBAL-A3 has over the APTIAL-C (green laser, superior IR illumination solution, visible override port, cheaper, ), I think the DBAL is the clear winner on paper. If you're absolutely sure you've no need for a visible laser, consider the DBAL-I2 single spectrum, which has an adjustable and focusable laser-based IR illuminator and an IR laser, at less than 800 USD on TNVC.
    Although I do not own a DBAL-A3, I've shot one next to my D2 and ATPIAL-C. I could not tell much difference between the two laser-based illuminators. The D2 blew both out of the water but like I said, apples and oranges. Thus, I'd go with the D2 if I needed that extra LED IR illumination. Otherwise, I see it as a toss-up between the A3 and ATPIAL-C with a possible edge to the A3 for the reasons that you mention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    The DBAL-A3 utilizes a laser-based illuminator that is adjustable and focusable, with essentially the same form factor as the DBAL-I2. Bonus is that it's also cheaper than the DBAL-D2 and APTIAL-C. There is also the manual override port for the visible laser that one can use in conjunction with a Steiner white light, so that you have one pressure pad for the IR stuff, and one pressure pad that will simultaneously turn on both the visible laser and the white light; I suspect the Unity/TNVC TAPS will also allow for that functionality, but with Surefire lights, too.

    Given the many additional features the DBAL-A3 has over the APTIAL-C (green laser, superior IR illumination solution, visible override port, cheaper, ), I think the DBAL is the clear winner on paper. If you're absolutely sure you've no need for a visible laser, consider the DBAL-I2 single spectrum, which has an adjustable and focusable laser-based IR illuminator and an IR laser, at less than 800 USD on TNVC.
    Do you happen to have the part number for said pressure switches? I've decided on the A3 as it will fit my requirements better

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    Quote Originally Posted by danieljmaunder View Post
    Do you happen to have the part number for said pressure switches? I've decided on the A3 as it will fit my requirements better
    I do not, but the DBAL-A3 should come with both a regular pressure switch and a dual cable switch as part of the package, at least according to both the TNVC page the the DBAL-A3's manual; you'll probably have to ask TNVC or Steiner themselves for the actual part number, as it's not listed in the DBAL-A3 manual. Remember, that functionality works only with Steiners own WMLs, and not the SF lights; you'd have to wait for the TAPS to come out to integrate the two brands. You might be able to splice the white light cable to put an SF plug at the end... might.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 10-29-15 at 10:01.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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    The IR illuminator is the best feature of a MFAL device. Out of all the "real deal" lasers, the PEQ-2 has the best illuminator. It unfocuses wider than the ATPIAL & DBAL and is a perfect circle instead an oblong shape. The civilian ATPIAL has a very weak IR flood. You're probably better off with the DBAL-D2, even though it's big and heavy. The LED IR illuminator is actually usable at distance on that unit.

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    I agree. The ATPIAL-C is one small step above a nice airsoft laser in terms of functionality.

    Not being able to adjust the flood is a big deal for me.

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